Cheap multimeter accuracy

[JohnW2]

I wouldn't belittle the extra functions you get on a more expensive meter.

Albeit an appreciable proportion of things on your lest are not really "functions", then for a person who really wants/needs a reasonable proportion of the extra functions', I would not belittle them, either.

However, this is a 'DIY Electrics' forum and, even for those participants who are not DIYers, its essentially all about 'electrical work' - so I really don't think that (m)any of the readers of this would need many of the 'extra functions' you mention. In any event ...

... Plus more which I can't think of. Nobody needs ALL those, but my goto meter has many of them, and it was £25.

... although it's a long time since I paid even that much for a meter (and, as I've said, I actually use meters much more for 'electronic' than 'electrical' work), I wouldn't regard that as unreasonable price - but some of the things we're talking about are a lot more expensive than that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, maybe - but there's also an issue within the sector; with competition between institutions, on open days, prospective student visit days and publicity materials, a lab full of Lidl multimeters wouldn't quite cut it!

Aren't individual institutions able to set their own course fees?

If they are, then I might have suspected that a good few prospective students would be quite attracted by being told, at an open day, that the institution's fees were £X00 or £Y,000 p.a. less than those of competing institutions because they didn't pay unnecessarily high prices for equipment - possibly even more so if £X00 or £Y,000 were translated into 'pints of beer', 'bottles of Prosecco/Cava' or 'number of Glastonbury tickets'

Kind Regards, John

 

[RandomGrinch]

Aren't individual institutions able to set their own course fees?

Theoretically yes, in practice no!
The current university course price cap, means most (if not every full-time course), is charged at the maximum capped rate.
(There are of course, slightly different rates for Wales, but we won't get into that here! ).

The current fee cap for full-time university courses is... (and for some of you this may be a shock!)
....£9250 per year.

although it's a long time since I paid even that much for a meter (and, as I've said, I actually use meters much more for 'electronic' than 'electrical' work), I wouldn't regard that as unreasonable price - but some of the things we're talking about are a lot more expensive than that.

The most expensive 'multimeter' I have bought, were two Keithley 2001 (I won't say the price, but it was at a considerable discount off list).
We use them for the pA and nV resolution when characterising homemade superconductors, amongst other things

 

[Justin Passing]

However, this is a 'DIY Electrics' forum and, even for those participants who are not DIYers, its essentially all about 'electrical work' - so I really don't think that (m)any of the readers of this would need many of the 'extra functions' you mention.

All righ functions and features , to be pedantic.

I've edited the list.
As this is a DIY forum, I would advise buyers to look for the ones I've made coloured.

The one this colour isn't common at all but it's more useful than some may realise. If the reading changes, the thing beeps. Of mine, only the Flukes do it.

One parameter I din't mention was size, another a belt clip. The Keithley 2001 mentioned is fine for bench use, I have a 7510 used w electrochemical sensors. All very nice but not so good for a sparky up a step ladder!

 

[JohnW2]

Theoretically yes, in practice no! The current university course price cap, means most (if not every full-time course), is charged at the maximum capped rate.

That's what I thought.

So, if an institution can 'somehow manage' with the capped rate when they are paying a fortune for equipment, they presumably would be equally able to 'manage' (i.e. absolutely everything else would be exactly the same) if they reduced their expenditure on equipment and reduced their fees (to below the capped rate) by the same amount, wouldn't they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

All righ functions and features , to be pedantic.

I probably would not have been 'pedantic' had you not, for some reason, emboldened the word "functions" in the prelude to your list which contained a good few things which clearly weren't functions

I've edited the list. As this is a DIY forum, I would advise buyers to look for the ones I've made coloured.

Fair enough. I agree that they are probably the more important (for 'electrical work'). Of course, some of the cheapest ones have at least some of those functions/features.

The one this colour isn't common at all but it's more useful than some may realise. If the reading changes, the thing beeps. Of mine, only the Flukes do it.

As you say, that is pretty unique to some Flukes, but I personally would not dream of paying the vast premium necessary to get that one additional function/feature. One does not have to pay much to get a manual 'hold' function - and that's probably good enough for most people, particularly the 'very occasional use' of DIYers.

One parameter I din't mention was size, another a belt clip. The Keithley 2001 mentioned is fine for bench use, I have a 7510 used w electrochemical sensors. All very nice but not so good for a sparky up a step ladder!

I don't think any of the cheap ones are in any way 'too big' (indeed, I've complained that some I've had have been too small!) - and a good few of them have belt clips (sometimes doubling as a stand).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Justin Passing]

It was a few years ago, but there were many used Flukes on ebay. I bought 2 (I lost one then found it) and they're both fine, years later. They were £30 in a tough carrier.
I just looked - it's not so today. There are just a few.
Actually they're a bit larger than you need for DIY. How we used to manage with AVO 7 & 8 I don't know. Before my time but I have a couple.

While advising, I'd avoid this type for its leads - they may need replacing and these appear fixed: (even at £22)

Clamp meters are useful sometimes but most are not good as general purpose DMMs. I checked a few on ebay- most don't actually tell you all about the ranges.

The Analog bar graph seems to be a rarity too, shame. A very cheap swinging-needle one can detect a bouncing switch that a DMM misses.

This one would be ok 90% of the time, for my "general" use: (It also has another desirable - somewhere to park the probes) (£<22)

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It's quite disappointing that these days there isn't a cheapish one which does a lot.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

It's quite disappointing that these days there isn't a cheapish one which does a lot.

Some Extech are cheaper range and do a lot, I have one that does quite a bit, paid about £35 for it, and then there’s some Amprobe ones (now owned by Fluke).

 

[JohnW2]

It was a few years ago, but there were many used Flukes on ebay. I bought 2 (I lost one then found it) and they're both fine, years later. They were £30 in a tough carrier. I just looked - it's not so today. There are just a few.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'just a few'. I just looked, too, and found 146 used Fluke multimeters.

Actually they're a bit larger than you need for DIY....

I don't think that any of the sort of 'handheld' multimeters are really 'too larger' for a DIYer or, in most situations, an electrician

... How we used to manage with AVO 7 & 8 I don't know. Before my time but I have a couple.

I also still have an AVO 8 (and there were countless at school and in some uni labs), but I can't say that I ever tried to use one in any situation other than 'on the bench'! However, I do still have one of these, which I (well, I suppose, my parents!) bought about 60 years ago. It's still working fine, and I still sometimes do use it - there's a lot to be said for moving-coil analogue meters (better than electronic attempts to emulate it!) when dealing with fairly rapidly fluctuating readings, provided one doesn't need a high input impedance....

While advising, I'd avoid this type for its leads - they may need replacing and these appear fixed: (even at £22)

Goodness. I've never seen one like that, and would avoid it like the plaguw for the reason youy mention.

The Analog bar graph seems to be a rarity too, shame. A very cheap swinging-needle one can detect a bouncing switch that a DMM misses.

Exactly - that's why, as above, I favour the 'swinging needle' in such situations. "Analogue" (actually digital!) 'bar displays' are inferior - not the least because they are 'too quick' - the inertia and friction associated with a needle are beneficial.

It's quite disappointing that these days there isn't a cheapish one which does a lot.

As I've said, it really depends upon how demanding/'choosy' one is. There are many extremely cheap ones out there which are probably perfectly adequate for occasional DIY use, and maybe even for more frequent/regular use by electricians.

Kind Regards, John

 

[mattylad]

I have always found that a cheap multimeter is adequate for DIY domestic electrical work.
Even if it reads a few volts difference, it's more than enough to show something is live or not.

My current meters are from Lidl and both do what I need them to do.
The expensive one I have failed on me.

 

[JohnW2]

I have always found that a cheap multimeter is adequate for DIY domestic electrical work. Even if it reads a few volts difference, it's more than enough to show something is live or not.

Indeed. That's what I've been saying.

My current meters are from Lidl and both do what I need them to do.

I have a number of a similar ilk and, as with you, they are generally fine for my purposes, both electrical and electronic.

The expensive one I have failed on me.

As I said, although purely a single anecdote (hence 'meaningless'), the only multimeter I can recall having ever 'failed' (producing obviously incorrect readings) was, ironically, a fairly expensive Fluke - albeit they replaced it FOC, despite it being well out of warranty. However, I could probably have bough 20 of the cheapo ones for what was originally paid for the Fluke!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I get that the RCB is better at detecting faults, my question was more about the limitations of multimeters.

It is more complex than that - it could well be that leakage is dependent upon the applied voltage, which is why when insulation resistance is tested, the test is usually carried out at over double the working voltage. Your meter is testing the resistance at somewhere between 1 and 9v depending on the meter and the item being checked.

Be aware that RCD's/ RCBO's can be tripped by an insulation failure on either the live or neutral conductor.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For what it's worth, exactly the same for me. Whenever I've compared their readings with expensive calibrated ones (which I've done quite often over the years - 'for reassurance'), the readings have always been very close.

I keep a set of various standard's in my workshop and I find the very same with cheap, versus expensive meters - I have many of both. The big difference is in the build quality, robustness and calibration certificates supplied with the expensive ones.

My working rules is - if you get strange reading with one meter, always have a second to hand to compare it to.

 

[winston1]

It's quite disappointing that these days there isn't a cheapish one which does a lot.

They are all dirt cheap these days. Compare with what you had to pay for an Avo back in the day.

 

[JohnW2]

I keep a set of various standard's in my workshop and I find the very same with cheap, versus expensive meters - I have many of both.

I'm pleased to hear that it's not just me!

The big difference is in the build quality, robustness and calibration certificates supplied with the expensive ones.

The absence of calibration certificates is not really relevant (other than for 'bureaucratic' reasons) if the readings are always close to those of 'expensive comparators. As for 'build quality and cost, I have plenty of (increasingly!) cheapo ones that are still functioning satisfactorily after many years/decades - and if a replacement would cost maybe 5% of the price of a mid-range Fluke, I'm inclined to regard that (for me) as a "no brainer"

My working rules is - if you get strange reading with one meter, always have a second to hand to compare it to.

I imagine that's what we all do. As I've said, the irony is that the only major 'failure' I can recall was that of an expensive Fluke, which failure was identified/confirmed by comparison of readings with those from a number of very cheap other meters

Kind Regards, John