Combi boiler cycling

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Hi all.

Long one but I might as well try and give you all the info in one post.

I had a new Vaillant ecofit combi boiler fitted last year. It was only powering two radiators due to our renovation being early stages, I’m not sure if he adjusted any settings to ensure this was fine with the boiler. We now have six radiators, although sometimes we turn off one or two in spare rooms if they’re not being used. The radiators have older style manual valves.

Generally we turn on the heating at 5pm and the room would be up to target temperature of 18.5 within an hour. Excellent. I noticed that the boiler was still turning on every once in a while between say 7 and 10pm, even though the thermostat said 18.5 still. It was only costing 10p an hour but it seemed completely pointless if the radiators were barely lukewarm. The house seems to be holding the heat fairly well.

I sat and watched the boiler once up to room temp and the flow temp would be at 39, the boiler would fire up for 30 seconds, it would go to 45 and it would anti cycle. Completely pointless and I can’t understand why it would be calling for heat and only leave it on for 30 seconds.

I had a look at the flow temperature on the boiler and this was set to 75, which seemed stupidly hot, so I’ve now set that to 65, but nothing really changed. I remember him saying it had to be hot with only two radiators on the system.

I tried setting the thermostat to 19.5 and this seemed to work more like how I’d expect the system to work, in that it was cycling on and off while keeping the radiators at a more consistently higher temp. Only issue was that it seemed to be cycling every 5 minutes, which seems far too often.

Could it be a case that the anti cycle time has been set to 5 minutes and this would be better set to at least 10 mins. I’m not sure it explains why the boiler clicks on for only 30 seconds when the flow temp is only 45.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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Has your boiler a water pre heat ? it may be that
That’s function to do with hot water to the tap right? I can tell it’s the central heating with the light clicking on and off on the thermostat receiver.
What is the make/model of the roomstat?
 
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That’s function to do with hot water to the tap right? I can tell it’s the central heating with the light clicking on and off on the thermostat receiver.

That controller probably uses TPI control which will switch the boiler on/off very rapidly, you should be able to set the minimum on time and also the cycles per hour, CPH, gas boilers might normally be set to a minimum of 1 min every 10 minutes, 6 CPH but you can change this, maybe to 2 min on, 6CPH, you might be better off, if selectable to switch off TPI control and set the hysteresis to say 0.4C, this works very well for me, (set to 0.3C, Oil fired boiler will run for 8 to 10 minutes and stay off for ~ 20/30 minutes, I don't have any TPI or CPH, dead simple.

You should check the anti cycling time, this normally defaults to 20Minutes but the actual recycle time is a look up table using the set time and the target flow temp, see below. if the set time is 20 minutes (at 65C target temp) then the actual anticycle time is 4.5 minutes, would suggest setting it to 40 minutes this will give a actual anticycling time of 8 minutes which is just 2 mins less than the 6 CPH (10 minutes), you can set it longer but it will then eat into the cycle off time remaining, if you sret CPH to 3 then you can extend the anticycle time to 18 minutes or so if required to enable the boiler to fire up at ignition conditions.

1700776005701.png
 
That controller probably uses TPI control which will switch the boiler on/off very rapidly, you should be able to set the minimum on time and also the cycles per hour, CPH, gas boilers might normally be set to a minimum of 1 min every 10 minutes, 6 CPH but you can change this, maybe to 2 min on, 6CPH, you might be better off, if selectable to switch off TPI control and set the hysteresis to say 0.4C, this works very well for me, (set to 0.3C, Oil fired boiler will run for 8 to 10 minutes and stay off for ~ 20/30 minutes, I don't have any TPI or CPH, dead simple.

You should check the anti cycling time, this normally defaults to 20Minutes but the actual recycle time is a look up table using the set time and the target flow temp, see below. if the set time is 20 minutes (at 65C target temp) then the actual anticycle time is 4.5 minutes, would suggest setting it to 40 minutes this will give a actual anticycling time of 8 minutes which is just 2 mins less than the 6 CPH (10 minutes), you can set it longer but it will then eat into the cycle off time remaining, if you sret CPH to 3 then you can extend the anticycle time to 18 minutes or so if required to enable the boiler to fire up at ignition conditions.

View attachment 322319
Thanks for the info. I can’t see anything about the thermostat having TPI and certainly can’t see any settings to change it. It seems very basic. For some reason the flame icon doesn’t appear on the display any more when it’s calling for heat, even though it did last year. I’m wondering if it’s just a bit useless. It’s saying that my living room went up 0.5 degrees tonight, despite turning the heating off two hours ago. It doesn’t feel warmer than it does when the heating is on!

The boiler is probably due a service anyway, so I’m tempted to get someone in to have a look. I just need to make sure the person actually knows what they’re talking about.
 
Thanks for the info. I can’t see anything about the thermostat having TPI and certainly can’t see any settings to change it. It seems very basic. For some reason the flame icon doesn’t appear on the display any more when it’s calling for heat, even though it did last year. I’m wondering if it’s just a bit useless. It’s saying that my living room went up 0.5 degrees tonight, despite turning the heating off two hours ago. It doesn’t feel warmer than it does when the heating is on!

The boiler is probably due a service anyway, so I’m tempted to get someone in to have a look. I just need to make sure the person actually knows what they’re talking about.
The resolution of of these stats is I think 0.5C even though you might see changes in 0.1C steps, mine does.
To see/test the hysteresis of your stat, assuming boiler off, increase the stat setpoint in 0.1C steps, if you can, you will/should hear a click from the stat + a flame symbol should appear in its display, you then at least know what the stat hysteresis is and that the boiler fires up and stays firing, keep watching the actual room temp, if you have TPI control then you should see the stat switching off the boiler just before its setpoint is reached.
 
You can change the minimum ON time ONLY, (not the OFF I think) anyway, and Optimum Start, probably a few more
I think its hysteresis might be 0.6C, SP + & - 0.3C.

No Description Settings
3OT Min. On Time 1- 5min
 

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Last edited:
You can change the minimum ON time ONLY, (not the OFF I think) anyway, and Optimum Start, probably a few more
I think its hysteresis might be 0.6C, SP + & - 0.3C.

No Description Settings
3OT Min. On Time 1- 5min
Hi John, thanks for your replies on this. I’ve had to do some reading and understand what a lot of this actually means. The thermostat definitely has the TPI function. It explains why is used to show the flame icon but doesn’t any more. I’m not sure if it matters that all of the “learning” it was doing previously was when we only had two radiators on the system.

From my point of view, I can see the logic in calling for heat, even though the temperature doesn’t look like it’s dropped on the thermostat as it’s in 0.5 increments. I borrowed a room thermostat and I can see 0.1 degree fluctuations - hopefully I can change this setting to widen it a bit.

It’s working in a sense that the room is a good temperature and the boiler doesn’t need to do as much work to keep the flow temp at 65 - my main concern is the wear on the boiler for it constantly cycling.
 
I’ve managed to change the sensitivity of the thermostat. It was previously set to 0.0 - I’ve moved it to 0.5 to see if there is much of a difference. I’ve also got a separate device to show the room temp and it doesn’t make the thermostat look very accurate.

I’ve changed the thermostat to 18 and heat was still being called when the room temp was 18.3 and thermostat said 18. The boiler turned on with the flow temp at 40 and switched off by the time it got to 50 about 20 seconds later. Utterly pointless in my eyes. Surely it makes sense to have the boiler on for longer, reach the target flow temp of 65/70 and then turn off?

I’m hoping it’s not short cycling for reasons such as an overpowered boiler.
 
Did you change the minimum on time? It is settable from 1 to 5 minutes. Also check d.00 in the vaillant d parameters, set it well down to say 10kw from auto, you can allways increase
It if required, it won't affect the DHW output
 
Did you change the minimum on time? It is settable from 1 to 5 minutes. Also check d.00 in the vaillant d parameters, set it well down to say 10kw from auto, you can allways increase
It if required, it won't affect the DHW output
Thanks, will try those today. Just a quick one, if the flow temp is at 40, boiler clicks on and it goes to 50, then it clicks off again, that means that the problem is unlikely to be an overpowered boiler? The return temp is surely not the bit causing it to click off.
 
If the target flow temperature is 65C then no it shouldn't be tripping even if it overpowered until the flow temperature reaches 65+5, 70C it will also trip/ recycle if the flow/return temp differential (dT) is greater than 30C, if its cycling at 50C then the return temp must be a unlikely 20C or you have a circulation problem, if the DHW side is OK then unlikely to be the circ pump, could possibly be the diverter valve. Try setting the target flow temp to 75C.
 

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