Combi or conventional system if I want the ultimate shower experience??

[bernardgreen]

and I bet often overlooked

is that soapy frothy water runs through drains slower than no soapy water.

 

[Iknowcraig]

Been doing lots of reading! What does everyone think of thermal stores? I see you can get vented ones which I could then add solar and/or a wood burner with back boiler to down the line, I will be buying a log burner for one or two of the rooms anyway so could get a back boiler one instead. Do thermal stores perform as well as invented cylinders? Are they worth the money?

 

[Dan Robinson]

It very much depends.

 

[bernardgreen]

For what it is worth......

The mains pressure water for my shower is heated by passing through a second coil in another wise standard vented hot water cylinder. Low pressure hot water from the cylinder is used for bath and basins and is fed from a cold water cistern 8 feet above tap level.

 

[dilalio]

For what it is worth......

The mains pressure water for my shower is heated by passing through a second coil in another wise standard vented hot water cylinder. Low pressure hot water from the cylinder is used for bath and basins and is fed from a cold water cistern 8 feet above tap level.

Said shower taken whilst wearing your bathing suit Bernard?

 

[mcmoby69]

If you know Craig, why don't you ask him?

 

[bernardgreen]

Said shower taken whilst wearing your bathing suit Bernard?

 

[Iknowcraig]

Ok, I’ve been reading everything about thermal stores (wife thinks I’m mental) and they sound like a good solution, provided pressure and flow are good at the new house, the current thinking is:

Gledhill eco sol thermal store
https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/gledhill-torrent-eco-sol-thermal-store-solar-cylinders/

Should I go 250 or 350 litre? (Two powerful showers plus multiple taps)

Navitron solar install kit like:
https://www.navitron.org.uk/store/s...nal-solar-installation-kits/pro-kit4720-15164

I will also find a suitable back boiler log burner to add to the system and then use a new boiler to heat the thermal store when all other methods fail. I am not sure if I should go for a heat only or system boiler? I have read that due to thermal stores stopping boiler cycling and not needing them to modulate down, you can go for a massive boiler 40kw+ and have it operate at full capacity for short lengths of time when needed while mostly condensing?

Also I would run the rads off the thermal store, it seems like using trv’s on all rads and then using a smart pump like agrundofs alpha gives you room by room control so seems good

What does everyone think? I think I could self install all of the above (bar the boiler) for a similar price to a boiler and unvented store install?

 

[fixitflav]

Thanks for your reply! I don't have any experience with system design, layout etc but do have a bit of plumbing installation experience, so the physical part of actually installing the system I think I would be fine with, the planning side I would need to do plenty of research on. I would imagine there are fairly template installations for varying sizes of houses that differ little? I have a blank canvas so can keep the layout fairly simple. Or do you think the planning/layout side of things is completely beyond an amateur? (I would put in plenty of research before embarking on it if that helps?!)

The idea of a vented system appeals to me as I believe I could install everything past the boiler myself so save money and I would then be completely familiar with the system for any repairs in future. Although the idea of a sealed system with unvented cylinder does seem a bit more appealing now I have researched it. Would this kind of system cope with the demands of 2 high power showers and taps around the house provided my mains pressure was good enough? Also if the mains supply is a small bore would having a new supply installed help with this?

I think oldbuffer's ideas are good, but I'd part company with him over sealed system. I would agree with your original preference for open vented.

 

[Iknowcraig]

I think oldbuffer's ideas are good, but I'd part company with him over sealed system. I would agree with your original preference for open vented.

My main reason for liking open vented is I can install most of the system myself, maintain it myself and avoid the annual servicing cost of a gs3 qualified plumber.

 

[fixitflav]

My main reason for liking open vented is I can install most of the system myself, maintain it myself and avoid the annual servicing cost of a gs3 qualified plumber.

Agreed, and there's no risk of it cutting out on low pressure (you often see that mentioned on these forums) and need to top pressure up. There's no vessel with bladder which can fail. And unlike a sealed system it doesn't need a pressure relief valve.

 

[Iknowcraig]

So what does everyone think of the thermal store idea? I seem to be reading a huge amount of negative stuff about them on forums but can’t understand why the performance would differ that much to an unvented cylinder?

 

[bernardgreen]

So what does everyone think of the thermal store idea?

My thinking is they are too complicated with all the essential safety devices that have to be included.

I have mains pressure hot water for the shower and low pressure hot water for all other hot taps. Taps are fed from a conventional (*) vented hot water cylinder with cold water storage tank a metre above it . The shower is fed with mains pressure water, the hot supply being heated by passing it through a second coil in that same hot water cylinder.

(*) Conventional in the way it is heated but bespoke in that it was ordered with a second coil fitted into it.

 

[Iknowcraig]

My thinking is they are too complicated with all the essential safety devices that have to be included.

I have mains pressure hot water for the shower and low pressure hot water for all other hot taps. Taps are fed from a conventional (*) vented hot water cylinder with cold water storage tank a metre above it . The shower is fed with mains pressure water, the hot supply being heated by passing it through a second coil in that same hot water cylinder.

(*) Conventional in the way it is heated but bespoke in that it was ordered with a second coil fitted into it.

What safety devices are there? I am talking about an open vented thermal store? (Well technically a heat bank as I am looking at ones with an external PHE. I thought due to the lack of pressure these had less safety requirements than an unvented cylinder?

 

[bernardgreen]

I am talking about an open vented thermal store?

Sorry, I thought you were talking about a "standard" thermal store most of which are pressurised and store heat in water that also circulates round the radiators when heating the house.

I thought due to the lack of pressure these had less safety requirements than an unvented cylinder?

No over pressure safety devices are need in a vented store but over temperature safety devices should be fitted if there is an electric heater for the store