Conflict in Ukraine

[festive]

Ok i see the last topic on this was locked otherwise i would of used that to continue.

Now a litter further down the line surely it now seems plain and clear to everyone not even ISIS with all their oil money could have a 'Rebel' army this well organised with state of the art weaponry?

At the sametime i have a few 'friends of Russians' insisting the West started all this and all Putin is doing is preventing a corrupt Zionist party intent on genocide taking over Ukraine?!!

Not had time to trawl the detail, what's the deal?

 

[JBR]

I'm afraid this is not a story line that I have been taking an interest in, so I don't know much about it.

However, I'd like to know whether we, or the EU, should be taking sides between Russia and the Ukraine. Did either of those countries involve themselves in 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland?

(Of course, some Americans did!)

 

[AronSearle]

The west inadvertently started this by.....

Daring to exist and daring to maintain an army that could roflstomp Russias decrepit, outdated and corrupt military , despite having no political or cultural desire to invade.

Russia can’t tolerate Ukraine being a part of NATO or the EU, as they would see that as far too dangerous as a tactical threat. But this is just stupid Russian leadership dick waving about protecting their ‘back yard’, as if Ukraine is actually that tactically important when factoring in modern military tactics and hardware ability. Without nukes we could roflestomp russia in a week (not that we have any desire to), with nukes no war will ever happen between the two factions.

At the same time the EU should have known not to poke the stupid Russian bear and made clear intentions not to expand the EU further towards the Russian border. It doesn’t matter that we have no intentions to threaten Russia, we should have know that Russia would act like the stupid third rate USSR state it still is under Commissioner putin, and that Ukraine would pay the price.

 

[JBR]

Without nukes we could roflestomp russia in a week (not that we have any desire to), with nukes no war will ever happen between the two factions.

You're right. Despite all the bleatings of the 'ban the bomb' and the 'Greenham common women' brigades, nuclear weapons have effectively deterred another 'world war'.

It's to be hoped, then, that the Greenies (possibly in cahoots with Labour) don't get their way. The only nuclear power in Europe (excluding America) in that case would be France, and I wouldn't bet my pension on them being much help.

Despite the collapse of the USSR, the Russian bear is still not to be messed with. China is the same for that matter.

 

[Norcon]

Russia has 800,000 soldiers and 2 million in reserve.

We have dads army in comparison and nato if thats any help.
And can't even equip a few soldiers properly who went to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Brigadier]

Russia has 800,000 soldiers and 2 million in reserve.

Most of whom probably would fold quicker than whatever-folds-quickly, if push came to shove.
Just like the Iraqis did, when ISIS rolled into town.

 

[ladylola]

we could roflestomp russia in a week

Is that an updated version of " We only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten Russian edifice will come tumbling down "? We know how that turned out.
As to the situation then I suppose it comes down to which line one believes. The west was instrumental in the overthrow of the former Ukrainian government and the current government is the one currently waging war on it's own population , or at least that Russian speaking portion that sees it's future looking east rather than the west. The Donbas doesn't want to be part of the EU , a feeling that should resonate with many on this forum , but the EU wants their resources. The Ukraine can't become part of NATO by NATO's own rules in that they have an ongoing internal dispute which would need sorting out first. NATO's position may also become interesting as it seems the Greeks ( a NATO member) have offered Russia the possibility of a base on Cyprus .
I've said it before but while Putin might not be the brightest bulb on the tree he's showing more skill than the shower we have running our countries and has shown considerable restrain .
http://russia-insider.com/en/opinion/2015/02/18/3599

 

[Norcon]

At the end of the day putin is just standing up to the war mongering eu.

 

[Brigadier]

At the end of the day putin is just standing up to the war mongering eu.

Not warmongering - just the chubby pudgy kid, who thinks they rule the roost. Until they get bitch-slapped by the wiry skinny kid, who fights back.

 

[Newboy]

Remarkable difference in standards

The Russians cozy up to Cuba and plan to stick a couple of 'nukes' in Americas backyard & surprise - the Yanks don't like it - Bad nasty Russians!

The yanks in cahoots with Europe encourage bits of the former USSR to join NATO - putting NATO into Russia's backyard - the Russians don't like it - Bad nasty Russians?!

 

[Norcon]

Yes that about sums it up.

 

[Brigadier]

Remarkable difference in standards

The Russians cozy up to Cuba and plan to stick a couple of 'nukes' in Americas backyard & surprise - the Yanks don't like it - Bad nasty Russians!

The yanks in cahoots with Europe encourage bits of the former USSR to join NATO - putting NATO into Russia's backyard - the Russians don't like it - Bad nasty Russians?!

To hijack a recent advertising schtick......

using 60 yr old tensions when rationalising current troubles - plausible (just).

using 900 yr old doctrines............ - PRICELESS!

 

[Newboy]

I get the 60 year old tension (although the yanks are still not talking to Cuba so current in my book!)

I don't get the 900 yr old doctrine in relation to this thread

 

[Brigadier]

Fair play, in relation to this thread.

 

[AronSearle]

At the end of the day putin is just standing up to the war mongering eu.

Damn, putin has discovered our plan to invade!

Russia has 800,000 soldiers and 2 million in reserve.

We have dads army in comparison and nato if thats any help.
And can't even equip a few soldiers properly who went to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Going for an award in stupidity today?

We actually have very well equipped soldiers, and good high tech equipment, not having fully suitable equipment for desert occupation is another ballgame to what we need for warfare on temperate terrain.

And note I said occupation, not war. Even just the UK had more than enough equipment to go into and flatten the Iraq army, occupation is a whole other ballgame.

And we are talking Europe, not just the UK.

Russian hardware is still stuck in the cold war era, and it is a deeply corrupt country so who knows how much of it is functional.

2 Million ill equipped and poorly trained alcaholic soldiers = 2 million targets.

This will remain true as long as Russia is led by people like putin.