I am with you on this one Bengasman. Its seems we have a lot of "theorists" on this thread when as we know what looks good on paper doesn't necessarily translate into real life. 99% of uk homes are not geared up ie underfloor heating, oversized rads, poor insulation, to benefit from the increased expense and complexity WC brings for the small gains.
confused on which boiler to choose
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understanding the manufqctures claims is important aswell, ive seen alot of comments on the forum quoting din efficiency levels and comparing them to sedbuk ratings without realising the differences
Afraid I beg to differ with that statement.
If you do not know the theory, you cannot carry out a task of work successfully. An example of that is knowing how a boiler functions. At this moment in time standing in front of the boiler, monkey wrench is still in the shiney tool box and understanding boiler operation is at theoretical stage i.e. in the mind. Having theoretically analysed the malfunction, the engineer now removes the Avo8 and monkey wrench from the tool bag and gets to work. Now he is working in 'real life' to fix the fault. Many do not have theaoretical understanding so will throw parts at a boiler until it is working.
I would say 99% of homes have better windows compared to what was fitted 25 years ago. Just loiter at B&Q counter for half an hour and you will be surprised how much loft insulation is purchased by homeowners.
If it was left to boiler fitting brigade, even the mandotory roomstat would be missing as they feel fully TRVed system equates to good installation practice.
I have been to houses where the customer prefers to use a fancy singing dancing programmer as an on/off switch and then another customer who specifies WC on her Ecotec instal. I would prefer controls that give me added saving in fuel be it two pieces of stick or a fancy programmer instead of having a system where one has to turn off radoators in summer to get the boiler to heat the cylinder.
Which module is that, and who did the course?
To what degree have you tested what you think you understood in practice?
My opinion is based on experience rather than theory, and the figures do stand up to scrutiny.
Maybe I have read up more on the subject than most. How else would you explain the fact that so few have picked up on the sales trick of using percentages in misleading way?
WC reduces the bill by about 2% on a correct installation.
Percentages and stats can suggest anything you want them to suggest. Measurements and base figures are what they are. The 20% from the sales brochures is compared to the ~10% efficiency difference between band d and band a.
Band d sedbuk average is 80%, band a is 91%. wc will bring that to 93%, not 111%. Sadly, no boiler will achieve 33 kW heat ouput from 30Kw net gas input.
I have never disputed that. I question the ROI of it, especially in the light of added risk/costs of breakdown. Parts and labour of wc addition is £100-£200, and a similar amount if it fails just once during the lifetime of the boiler.
Compared to a correctly designed and installed system with slightly larger radiators than standard, the gasbill can only be expected to go down by about 2%. That makes it a long time before you recoup the estimated £300.
I was promoting HE boilers and programmable roomstats way before the majority had worked out the how and why.
I don't argue that wc works or can save money. I just think that spending that extra money on larger rads is a better investment as it has the added advantages of much greater efficacy.
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J
johnsville
You can do both and get higher efficiency.
Most of the time radiators are oversized as they are designed when it is -3C outside and the boiler running at 80C. The WC, with an internal temperature sensor, makes use of this radiator "oversizing" to great effect and works out much cheaper in installation costs than oversizing 12 radiators. Putting in WC makes a lot of sense, that is why they are standard on the Continent. We are a bit slow in this country. Get back under your bridge troll.
J
johnsville
J
johnsville
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