Confused over MR16 LEDs

[Jim77]

Hi, I have four 12v halogen MR16/GU5.3 lamps in the bathroom. I wanted to change these to LED bulbs. I made the assumption that MR16 automatically meant 12v.

Anyway I bought 4 MR16 LEDs on ebay, the listing was for a range of lamps and the voltage (220v) was stated but, as I said, I assumed MR16 equated to 12V.

The bulbs dont work, obviously. My question is, are mains voltage MR16/GU5.3 legal in UK.

Thank you, Jim.

PS: Please, no reference to the "assume" cliche.

 

[ericmark]

MR16 and GU5.3 refers to holder not lamp and you can use different supplies.

In the main the MR16 is 12 volt but the amps vary and also some are AC and some are DC. With AC often there is both minimum and maximum wattage/amps and moving to LED often means the minimum wattage requirement is not met. Also some LED's are not controlled by voltage but by current and you have a driver which limits current not voltage.

The English does not help. Low Voltage is between 50 and 1000 volts AC but many extra low voltage (below 50 volt) lamps and fittings are labelled incorrectly "Low Voltage". Also a transformer can still be used but most labelled as transformers are in fact switch mode power supplies. Again a driver is normally considered as a consent current power supply but in fact many DC power supplies are labelled as drivers.

So you have to read what it says and try to work out what you have. If the box supplying the lamp is light in weight and says output 10 - 50W or something like that then it is a power supply not a transformer and will not work unless the lamps use over 10W.

What is written on the lamp. I am looking at one now it says ITP 0.54W / 12V 9 LED MR16 on the lamp and on the packet. However it does not say if AC or DC or both. I have had some fail in fact they are the only LED's which have failed and I do wonder if rated AC or not.

Clearly you have to match lamp to supply I have a 24V MR16 lamp which is a special so clearly you can get different voltages.

 

[ricicle]

MR16 and GU5.3 refers to holder not lamp and you can use different supplies.
.

MR16 does not refer to the holder, it refers to the envelope of the reflector !
MR = Multi-faceted Reflector.

Mains halogen MR16 can have GU10 bases.
ELV halogen MR16 can have GU5.3/GX5.3 bases.

 

[Jim77]

Thank you both for your replies. I am aware of most of what you state, but unfortunately it did not answer my question which was perhaps badly worded

So, is a lamp with a GU5.3 base rated at 220V legal in the UK?

After searching google I see they are sold by Amazon and many others so I guess the answer is - Yes.

I would still welcome further comments from members. Also, what are the recommendations/guidelines about mains voltage downlights in a bathroom.

Thank you
Jim

 

[ban-all-sheds]

MR16 and GU5.3 refers to holder not lamp and you can use different supplies.
.

MR16 does not refer to the holder, it refers to the envelope of the reflector !
MR = Multi-faceted Reflector.

And 16 = 16/8" diameter.

Mains halogen MR16 can have GU10 bases.

Or GZ10.


Jim - as ricicle says, MR16/GU10/GX5.3 are not related in a mutually exclusive way. It is not a case of a lamp being MR16 OR GU10, or 230V - the terms apply to different parts of it. It's like saying that a GLS lamp must have a BC base, and a lamp with a BC base must be a GLS and one with an ES base cannot be, or saying a candle lamp must be 230V.


You can get MR16 lamps with either a GU10 or a GX5.3 base:

Nearly all GU10-base lamps have MR16 envelopes, although you can get MR11:

As to whether 230V lamps with GX5.3 bases are legal, don't know. I can't think of any reason why not, but the other issue would be does anybody make GX5.3 lampholders rated at 230V....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

After searching google I see they are sold by Amazon and many others so I guess the answer is - Yes.

That they are sold by or through Amazon, eBay etc, is no guarantee that they are legal, or safe, or that any compliance/certification/standards claimed for them are not false.

Also, what are the recommendations/guidelines about mains voltage downlights in a bathroom.

Mine would be don't use them, irrespective of voltage.

Recessed lighting can be OK, but only in large sizes.

The little 2" diameter ones came out of the retail display market, where they were originally appropriated from semi-professional film projectors designed to throw a narrow beam of light onto a screen and were used to throw small pools of light onto individual items. Ever noticed how a common term for them is spotlights?

They are actually specifically designed to not be any good for providing general room illumination.

I sometimes refer to them as torches, and if you look at the business end of a Maglite you'll see a marked similarity to an MR16 lamp. Fiddling with the lamp technology does nothing to address the problems of the format.

In places like kitchens, bathrooms, WCs, possibly hallways and landings where you just want unobtrusive efficient lighting that just gets on and does the job, something like this is ideal:

Fluourescent lights can be dimmed. If you find one you like which isn't dimmable, look to see how easy it would be to replace the ballast with a dimmable one (which you can often find on fleaBay).


If you want LED, again there are larger sizes, e.g. the Thorn BaseLED.

http://www.thornlighting.co.uk/download/Base_LED_Brochure.pdf

http://www.thornlighting.co.uk/PDB/Ressource/teaser/E2/TLG_BaseLED.pdf

http://www.thornlighting.co.uk/object/PDF/datasheet.aspx?CompanyID=7&GroupID=12650&CL=E2&CC=GB


And quite a few people now sell LED panels, in varying sizes, but you'd need to check about suitability for bathrooms.


http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:bathroom-zones



Also, with all recessed lighting in bathrooms you need to make sure that warm moist air can't get through the ceiling, particularly if there's a loft above. Being IP rated means that water can't get to the electrical connections, doesn't necessarily mean that there's no path through or around the light for air.

 

[Jim77]

Wow! b-a-s
Thanks for taking the time to post such comprehensive and informative replies.

I'll spend some time looking at Regulux and Thorn info - but what is for sure is just how much I dont know about lighting.

I am going to write off the ebay purchase and in the meantime I will stick with the (costly to run) halogens until we do a bathroom makeover. I'll be back for advice prior to making the final decision on the lighting to use.

Thanks again everyone
Jim

 

[ericmark]

Yes made a mistake but when I saw the other replies I did look and only info I could find here rates the holder at 8 amp and 24 volt so it would seem although the lamps are made getting a fitting which can use them is not going to be easy.