Consent

[pickles]

A new government campaign warns men that they must make absolutely sure women actively consent to sex beforehand or they run the risk of being prosecuted for rape

ooh baby yes yes yes come on.........oh ahh...... could you just sign here, where i can't see it's dark, oh have you got a pen..in my handbag... I cant find it, it's on the floor in the living room, it's rolled under the bed, it's run out, i'll just nip next door, no their on holiday AAAARGH. I know say these words i''l video them on my mobile "I jane Doe hereby consent to having it off with you, so long as your good at it and I don't feel guilty half way through cos I 've got a steady boyfriend"

More practical and constructive advice from our glorious leaders

 

[WoodYouLike]

More practical and constructive advice from our glorious leaders

What about the new plans of the Home Office to make companies pay employees damages when employees become victim of crime during their work? Instead of The Home Office paying for damages as happens (so I'm told) now.

 

[joe-90]

Why do you think it's a laughing matter? Drink is a drug (albeit a legal one) therefore plying a girl with drink is nothing short of drug rape.



joe

 

[pickles]

Why do you think it's a laughing matter? Drink is a drug (albeit a legal one) therefore plying a girl with drink is nothing short of drug rape.



joe

I'm not laughing Joe-90, I was using parody to highlight the silliness of the campaign, not the underlying issue. The campaign isn't about whether or not girls are being plied with drink it's about whether men are making sure they have consent

"Excuse me darling could you just breath into this intoximeter, I need to know whether your still legally competent before we go back to my place". OOh your twice the legal limit to drive you naughty girl, i'l just phone my lawyer, "hallo Mr lawyer, whats that, a blood test, back from the lab in 10 days, no problemo."

 

[WoodYouLike]

 

[JohnD]

Best to finish before she has time to change her mind.

I'll have to take lessons in that. I seldom win the gold, usually the bronze or silver.

 

[noodlz]

Best to finish before she has time to change her mind.

Using the Paddy Ashdown method leaves her no time to change her mind

 

[kendor]

A certain amount of responsibility should lie with the drinkers, they should know their limits. Some women seem to go out to get as drunk as possible and wearing very little and showing all they've got when drunk they wonder why they are vunerable? crying rape after the event is a bit like closing the stable door.

The weekend ritual at the pubs and clubs is a haven for meeting people and what follows and it's understandable that some will think they have been given the green light and act accordingly especially if no resistance is met, so the next morning it's a bit late to change your mind.

 

[WoodYouLike]

crying rape after the event is a bit like closing the stable door.

Understand me correctly, rape can never be justified, but....
crying rape is also known to happen when a girl had very different expectations of the relationship than the boy (or vice versa). Say they end up in bed, boy leaves, but doesn't call the following day/two days/three days, while the girl had the impression it was going to be a steady relationship.
Then she starts thinking she's being used i.e. raped.

It happens.

 

[kendor]

crying rape after the event is a bit like closing the stable door.

Understand me correctly, rape can never be justified, but....
crying rape is also known to happen when a girl had very different expectations of the relationship than the boy (or vice versa). Say they end up in bed, boy leaves, but doesn't call the following day/two days/three days, while the girl had the impression it was going to be a steady relationship.
Then she starts thinking she's being used i.e. raped.

It happens.

That's why i said crying rape agreed there's no justification for rape itself.

 

[toffee]

Very emotive topic and difficult to find realistic solutions.

Imagine If you went on holiday and left your windows open and all the lights on and put your valuables out on display and left the doors wide open and came home to find you had been burgled.

You ring the police and they call round and whilst they would still investigate your burglary, they may, as would your insurance company say that you had been a bit irresponsable.

They would say that you hold responsibility for looking after your property and that whilst no one else has the right to enter your property without your permission.. and that the people who did so had committed a crime, you should have taken more steps to safe guard it yourself.

Well, I think that men and women should take more responsibilty for their own personal safety.

No one should be allowed to rape another, I steadfastly believe this...

However, if you go out and get gatted on drink or drugs, whether your drink is spiked or you choose to get yourself that way, then take steps in advance to protect yourself.

Take some responsibility for your safety.

I am not unsympathetic to the plight of those who have been raped, the contrary in fact and have devoted a lot of time in the past to the subject.

You wouldnt leave your handbag on your car seat and your car unlocked though would you.
It doesnt make it ok for someone then to steal it but you would critised for not taking a degree of responsibilty your self.
I think we (men and women) need to look at protecting ourselves in addition to prosecuting the rapist after the deed is done.


As for the saying no, meaning yes dilemma, of course it happens.
I have experienced this myself but only in a fun way.
That is exactly how the dilemma crops up though isnt it, leading to potentially confusing circumstances, when the other doesnt know if you are still joking or really meaning no..
Personally, if I was saying no and meaning it then it would be very clear.

 

[WoodYouLike]

that's why i said crying rape agreed there's no justification for rape itself.

I heard you the first time, that's why i repeated your phrase

 

[toffee]

the drug assisted rape issue essentially means that no one can give true consent if they are under the influence of drink and drugs...

so the hard line is ( not a seemingly fair one but anyway) that if you go out and have sex with someone who is intoxicated you are liable to be accused of rape. (by definition you have raped because a person ca not give true consent when intoxicated).

Its difficult isnt it.
We know why the laws are there, to protect against rape but hey, ihave sex with my husband when I am merry and vice versa and its not rape!


Youngsters say, but its not fair (they also ssume all rape is man raping woam) they say that it isnt far if the man was drunk himself at the time.
They say, if a girl is saying she is up for it and is removing the guys clothing etc and if he is drunk aswell, how is he supposed that her drink might have been spiked etc.

This is very true and it would be a shame if you couldnt have sex if you were over the limit!!! ( id be in jail for life by now)

its about responsibility again.
If you are in a relationship and sex after drink is the norm, then who cares.

You have to be aware that if you play with fire you might get burnt.

another thing to think about if you try to abolish responsibility for your sexual antics through being drunk is this;

Imagine someone knocking on your door and telling you your dad is dead because a driver has just been out of control and ran them down.

You are told that the driver didnt know what they doing becuse they were drunk.
Would you then say... oh, well if they drunk, that makes it ok then,its not really their fault.

We dont condone drink driving so why should we condone drink raping?

Im just adding to the debate here folks thats all.

It is a very difficult subject isnt it.
I can certainly remember,as a female being out when I was younger and my girlfriends and I buying more drinks for a nervous girlfriend to loosen her up a bit on her first date with a lad...

Thank goodness, its not a situation I find myself in these days... its a minefield for people.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Let's just hope common sense (by everyone) prevails.

 

[noodlz]

You make some very good points Woody & Toffee...good to see you guys making balanced arguments not just from one perspective.

It is such a difficult subject to address and there will always be deranged scuzbuckets of either sex who'll abuse people. Everyone's just gotta take every possible reasonable precaution and sadly even sometimes that will not be enough

The demon drink and drugs in our society and the social acceptability for complete excess leaves us all vulnerable, but how to deal with it without becoming a nanny state (sorry, goat's on me mnd ) ain't gonna be easy!?