cooker hood wiring

[ban-all-sheds]

Indeed it is.

And it is an opinion which is informed by skill and judgement, and which is to the best of my knowledge and belief correct.

The regulations are not prescriptive. Some people can cope with that, others can't. I can, you can't.

A zone is not marked on the wall with visible lines, it is bounded by lines projected from the accessory. If someone with a drill in hand cannot see the accessory then he will not project he lines, and therefore the zone will not exist. Some people understand that and others don't. I do, you don't.

I am right. You are wrong. Simple as that.

 

[Simon35]

I believe in another very recent thread on a shower fan, you took somebody to task for suggesting they would do additional work not prescribed by the regulations, in order to provide a safer install based on their experienced assessment.

Yet here, you are saying the regulations are not prescriptive and that experience should also be used to make a judgement on how something should be installed.

 

[JohnW2]

I believe in another very recent thread on a shower fan, you took somebody to task for suggesting they would do additional work not prescribed by the regulations, in order to provide a safer install based on their experienced assessment. ... Yet here, you are saying the regulations are not prescriptive and that experience should also be used to make a judgement on how something should be installed.

The issue really is that some intelligent interpretation of the regulation is required because (as so occurs so often in BS7671) the regulation appears not to have been written in such a way that the words clearly reflect the intention of the authors.

In this case, as BAS has said, common sense indicates that (although they failed to say this explicitly) the intent of the authors was fairly obviously that only 'visible' accessories create safe zones - as he has indicated, any other interpretation would make nonsense of the regulation. ... so, it's not a case of "experience-based judgement" but, rather, application of intelligence and common sense to aid in the interpreting of the intent of an imperfectly-written regulation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I believe in another very recent thread on a shower fan, you took somebody to task for suggesting they would do additional work not prescribed by the regulations, in order to provide a safer install based on their experienced assessment.

Because his position is profoundly illogical.

Yet here, you are saying the regulations are not prescriptive and that experience should also be used to make a judgement on how something should be installed.

Because my position is profoundly logical.

 

[Simon35]

I believe in another very recent thread on a shower fan, you took somebody to task for suggesting they would do additional work not prescribed by the regulations, in order to provide a safer install based on their experienced assessment.

Because his position is profoundly illogical.

Yet here, you are saying the regulations are not prescriptive and that experience should also be used to make a judgement on how something should be installed.

Because my position is profoundly logical.

Please explain why it is profoundly illogical to suggest that protecting an extractor fan in a bathroom with a RCD will be a good idea, even though the regs don't explicitly demand it on an existing installation where a new circuit is not being added, but would require it on a new install?

 

[DavidA1982]

I was't planning to fit a hidden socket.

A bit of a tangent, but is there any problem in fitting a socket hidden in an extractor fan chimney? I plan to have one high on the wall, hidden by the hood which extends to the ceiling. The socket is fed by a surface-mounted cable in trunking, which drops from the ceiling (it's actually a spur from a socket on the other side of the kitchen, which runs up the wall and then across the ceiling void, and down to feed the hidden socket for the extractor).

The electrician doesn't seem to have any problem with doing it this way, but I've seen a few things that make me wonder if he's the sort of person who does something as long as it is allowed, even if it is not best practice (e.g. he is using the corner of my hallway as a safe zone and running about 8 2.5mm T&E cables from teh floor to the ceiling to feed the upstairs circuits.)

 

[JohnW2]

I was't planning to fit a hidden socket.

.... I plan to have one high on the wall, hidden by the hood which extends to the ceiling. The socket is fed by a surface-mounted cable in trunking, which drops from the ceiling (it's actually a spur from a socket on the other side of the kitchen, which runs up the wall and then across the ceiling void, and down to feed the hidden socket for the extractor). The electrician doesn't seem to have any problem with doing it this way ...

If the cable to the socket is in surface-mounted trunking (hence visible) then that, in itself, is fine - the safe zone considerations only apply to buried (hence not visible) cables which, if not in safe zones would be at risk from drills, nails and screws etc. Having said that, if the cable came vertically down from ceiling to socket, it would probably be in a safe zone even if buried (but would need RCD protection).

... but I've seen a few things that make me wonder if he's the sort of person who does something as long as it is allowed, even if it is not best practice (e.g. he is using the corner of my hallway as a safe zone and running about 8 2.5mm T&E cables from teh floor to the ceiling to feed the upstairs circuits.)

That is certainly 'allowed' (a safe zone is a safe zone) but I think that a good few people (certainly myself!) are at least a little uncomfortable about using corners of rooms as safe zones, since it's not an uncommon place for people to drill or screw! However, given that it is regulation-compliant, I'm not sure that one could really call it 'bad practice'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I think that a good few people (certainly myself!) are at least a little uncomfortable about using corners of rooms as safe zones, since it's not an uncommon place for people to drill or screw!

But regrettably, on occasions it is the only logical place to install them, if one wishes to comply to this requirement.
Not all houses are designed the same and offer an ideal safe location to install buried cables in.

 

[JohnW2]

I think that a good few people (certainly myself!) are at least a little uncomfortable about using corners of rooms as safe zones, since it's not an uncommon place for people to drill or screw!

But regrettably, on occasions it is the only logical place to install them, if one wishes to comply to this requirement. Not all houses are designed the same and offer an ideal safe location to install buried cables in.

Agreed. However, particularly in kitchens, within 150m of a corner is a very common place to site fixing screws for wall units, and even some base units.

Kind Regards, John

 

[DavidA1982]

The cable is surface-mounted because it all runs within the chimney of the cooker hood, and the switch is situated within the chimney of the cooker hood too. I don't want the electrician making mess and costing money chasing out a run for a cable and socket that you won't see anyway.

I agree with you about the corners of rooms. What if I want to put some shelves there!? Although he's not even chased it in, he's just left it hanging, presumably to be boxed in later. There are literally 7 or 8 cables in total, chasing them in would create a hell of a mess and I wouldn't be that comfortable about gouging out that much of my wall either.

The other thing he's done that is a bit odd is in the kitchen. When he rewired the rest of the house I asked him to put a few extra circuits in the kitchen, as I knew I'd be re-doing it soon and I wanted the option to have an induction hob, an electric cooker, etc. The cooker is fine, but the other extra circuit look like a ring circuit at the Consumer Unit i.e. two cables coming out of the circuit-breaker. However, in the kitchen it doesn't form a ring, it is like two separate radial circuits. There is very little on it currently (a pantry light on one branch, and an old extractor fan on the other branch) but it still seems odd.

I'm getting off-topic here though - this thread is about cooker hoods, so I'll stop.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I plan to have one high on the wall, hidden by the hood which extends to the ceiling. The socket is fed by a surface-mounted cable in trunking, which drops from the ceiling (it's actually a spur from a socket on the other side of the kitchen, which runs up the wall and then across the ceiling void, and down to feed the hidden socket for the extractor).

Sounds acceptable to me.

The electrician doesn't seem to have any problem with doing it this way, but I've seen a few things that make me wonder if he's the sort of person who does something as long as it is allowed, even if it is not best practice (e.g. he is using the corner of my hallway as a safe zone and running about 8 2.5mm T&E cables from teh floor to the ceiling to feed the upstairs circuits.)

Providing the cables are within 150mm of the adjoining wall, it is allowed.

 

[JohnW2]

The other thing he's done that is a bit odd is in the kitchen. When he rewired the rest of the house I asked him to put a few extra circuits in the kitchen, as I knew I'd be re-doing it soon and I wanted the option to have an induction hob, an electric cooker, etc. The cooker is fine, but the other extra circuit look like a ring circuit at the Consumer Unit i.e. two cables coming out of the circuit-breaker. However, in the kitchen it doesn't form a ring, it is like two separate radial circuits. There is very little on it currently (a pantry light on one branch, and an old extractor fan on the other branch) but it still seems odd.

Yes, that does sound a little odd. If it is two radials, then it would have made more sense for them to have separate circuit breakers (maybe there wasn't space left in the CU for a second one?). Whether it is acceptable, reg-compliant or 'safe' depends upon the size of the cables and the rating of the circuit breaker.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I agree with you about the corners of rooms. What if I want to put some shelves there!? Although he's not even chased it in, he's just left it hanging, presumably to be boxed in later. There are literally 7 or 8 cables in total, chasing them in would create a hell of a mess and I wouldn't be that comfortable about gouging out that much of my wall either.

That is something you need to talk to the electrician about!

The other thing he's done that is a bit odd is in the kitchen. When he rewired the rest of the house I asked him to put a few extra circuits in the kitchen, as I knew I'd be re-doing it soon and I wanted the option to have an induction hob, an electric cooker, etc. The cooker is fine, but the other extra circuit look like a ring circuit at the Consumer Unit i.e. two cables coming out of the circuit-breaker. However, in the kitchen it doesn't form a ring, it is like two separate radial circuits. There is very little on it currently (a pantry light on one branch, and an old extractor fan on the other branch) but it still seems odd.

Are these two cables part of the cooking appliance circuit or just another circuit for pantry light and ex-fan. If the latter, providing the cable/cables are adequately protected by the MCB, on the face of it, it is compliant.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Please explain why it is profoundly illogical to suggest that protecting an extractor fan in a bathroom with a RCD will be a good idea, even though the regs don't explicitly demand it on an existing installation where a new circuit is not being added, but would require it on a new install?

It might or might not be a "good idea"

Do you have RCD protection on this lighting circuit?
Circuits entering the bathroom/shower-room will require this.

And it is his argument that requirements which apply to circuits have to be retroactively implemented that is profoundly illogical.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I would like to return to your actual situation and will try and ignore the World War that almost every topic seems to create

The cable is surface-mounted because it all runs within the chimney of the cooker hood, and the switch is situated within the chimney of the cooker hood too.

I would advise against this. The problem is that you will have a socket there with a fuse (they are usually specified as 3A). When one of the bulbs in the cooker hood blows it often will take out the fuse, leaving you with a non-functioning cooker hood.
To resolve this, you will need to dismantle the hood's chimney to access the plug and socket.
This is a PITA if you know that it is there. I have been to several sites where this approach has been taken and subsequent changes, tiling, painting, plastering etc has made it very difficult to remove the chimney to access the power source.

I suggest that you have just a flex connection point to connect to the extractor, with a switched fuse somewhere accessible!