cooker switch with socket

[Diyisfun]

What is the Purpose of Part P?
The law is expected to raise the competence of electrical installers and significantly reduce the risk of death, injuries and fires caused by defective electrical installations. Under the new law homeowners are still able to replace light switches and sockets on an existing circuit (except for in kitchens and bathrooms). An electrician registered with a government-approved scheme must undertake all other work.

The above is a copy from http://www.enterprise-tc.com/docs1/docs_new/partpmap.htm#what

I am saying no more..
EXCEPT ...there are a few people on this site (maybe 1 in particular) & every time breath is drawn, out comes Part P..

As above I SAY NO MORE...But Im not sulking...& where is the sun today

 

[securespark]

That's a load of Lobbocks, mate.

You can replace accessories or fittings anywhere without notification.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That is why I said "What about it (Part P), anyway?", and "When you return would you please tell us what you think Part P says about replacing cooker control units?", and why user56565 wrote "part p wouldn't affect this job".

What you have quoted is wrong. That is not what the law says, and I'm staggered that you think it is. These people have a vested interest in promoting the use of electricians, as that will generate more training revenue for them, so they have put lies on their website to make the requirements of Part P appear far more restrictive than they are. That quote contains 3 sentences, and 2 of them are wrong.

Finally,

there are a few people on this site (maybe 1 in particular) & every time breath is drawn, out comes Part P..

I think most people, when giving advice, mention Part P, for one very simple reason - they do not believe that general awareness of its existence is widespread enough yet for it to be safe to assume that people know, or should know, of it. And even when people think they know what it says, they are sometimes wrong, as you have just amply demonstrated.

It's not a case of refusing to advise people, saying "nah-nah-na-nah-nah Part P", it's that anybody who is acting responsibly feels that it would not be right to allow someone to go off and break the law out of ignorance.
And I can recall at least one instance of someone asking how to do something that was notifiable, getting the technical advice and a "by the way do you know about Part P?", who hadn't known about it and who after investigating it had decided to use a registered electrician. Not for technical reasons, but because they wanted to remain within the law.

If you find it tiresome - tough.

 

[securespark]

The law is expected....

Ha, f'in ha.

There are lots of laws that people expect things of, but they don't deliver.

Tell me mate - how do you think Part P will actually make things better?

Do you think that there will be a significant reduction in the incidence of death, injury and fire?

 

[mapj1]

Good god no, I expect fixed wiring to become marginally safer as a few fringe people are discouraged from having a go - and note that both trade and DIY have elements that really should do bettter - so perhaps 0.5 to 1 death less per yearfrom that. But the extra extension leads and adaptors it will encourage instead as DIY tempory replaces DIY permanent will kill 3 to 5 more per year in compensation.
I get these figures from looking at what happened inNew Zealend when it went the other way and permitted DIY wiring, after a long time with it illegal. Overall accidents there have fallen, but fixed wiring is slightly up.Then we scale the figures for the UK population.

But, it would be foolish to recommend breaking a law, even a silly one, but I'd suggest very strongly that the penalty for doing so is negligable -at worst a requirement to get a PIR done on the house at sale time..
Perhaps we should capture this, and BAS's summary of the law in the reference section.
PS if 6 month elapse after commisioning of any offence under the building regulations, you can no longer be prosecuted, (statute limitation of time under s127 of magistrates courts act) unless you actually cause an injury - but then if you endanger life that always was liable to prosecution, we did not need part P for that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Perhaps we should capture this, and BAS's summary of the law in the reference section.

Cue the mingle-mangle music..

I've actually started writing just such a reference item - my thoughts are that if it's placed in its own sticky at the very top (locked to prevent it degenerating into Part P arguments), and referenced in the CAUTION box here: //www.diynot.com/pages/el/ then we probably could dispense with trying to draw it to petitioners' attention all the time.

Off-line I'll email site admin about the idea, and when it's finished I'll post the piece here for peer review before it gets stuck.

 

[mapj1]

should that be 'part Pee-er review' Boom! Boom!

Or in this world that hides behind being health and safety conscious as an excuse to ban all fun "Pft Pft"-the sound of damp squibs.

 

[Diyisfun]

OK MAYBE I HAVE MISSED SOMETHING (caps intentional)

You DO NOT need to tell your local authority's Building Control department about:

repairs, replacements, maintenance work; or
extra power points or lighting points or other alterations to existing circuits (except in a kitchen or bathroom, or outdoors).

This is from http://www.bsi-global.com/ElectricalInstallers/PartPConsumerInfo/index.xalter

=========

So then as has just been said we do need a definitive guide

Being a DIYer I have no hesitation about doing any of the electrics in my home & I think most people that did would still do it now.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK MAYBE I HAVE MISSED SOMETHING (caps intentional)

Yes - what you've missed is the fact that you should stop looking at all these sites written by people like you,
AND GO AND READ THE ACTUAL LAW FOR YOURSELF BECAUSE THEN YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING (caps very much intentional)

From Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004:

[code:1] SCHEDULE 2B
Regulation 12(5)



DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED


1. Work consisting of -


(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;[/code:1]

 

[securespark]

 

[Diyisfun]

ban-all-sheds
Diyisfun wrote:
OK MAYBE I HAVE MISSED SOMETHING (caps intentional)

Yes - what you've missed is the fact that you should stop looking at all these sites written by people like you,
AND GO AND READ THE ACTUAL LAW FOR YOURSELF BECAUSE THEN YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING (caps very much intentional)

From Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004:

Code:
SCHEDULE 2B
Regulation 12(5)



DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED


1. Work consisting of -


(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;

OK SO YOU CAN SHOUT LOUDER (HEARD YOU BEFORE)

Ok so you have copied from the legal notice (thanks for the link, maybe instead of shouting PART P every other day, you could point people to it.)

Was there any particular reason that you didnt copy this section

2. Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

When I am looking to learn, I ask the so called experts if enough are asked then I can general establish the how, why what.

Professional are people that get paid for doing a task, that does not make them always correct.

I have read many of you posts & along with one or two others on here, I think you know your stuff, maybe lacking in communication though.

If my comments relating to Part P are incorrect, there is a nice way to say B$%%^&*s. But my reading of it is except Kitchen & Bathroom.

If you want to correct me try being polite, its no more difficult.
Have a nice day

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ok so you have copied from the legal notice (thanks for the link, maybe instead of shouting PART P every other day, you could point people to it.)

I've done that many times. Maybe instead of trying to determine what the law says by reading the websites of training companies and registration scheme organisers you should have the sense to look at the official government site that publishes the text of the legislation..

Was there any particular reason that you didnt copy this section

2. Work which -
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

Yes there was, and as you've now read the statutory instrument I'm surprised that you don't realise the reason. It was because it is irrelevant.

I have replaced an old cooker switch and socket

In Schedule 2B, which you say you have read, it lists work for which no building notice or deposit of full plans is required

1. Work consisting of -

(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;

The exclusion of kitchens and bathrooms from the non-notification category is defined in paragraph 2 of that schedule, which you say you have read, and which you seem to think I should have quoted.

2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

If my comments relating to Part P are incorrect, there is a nice way to say B$%%^&*s. But my reading of it is except Kitchen & Bathroom.

I'd like to politely suggest that you need to get better at reading and comprehension, specifically to understand the difference between replacing and adding.

If you want to correct me try being polite, its no more difficult.

What is difficult is to avoid getting extremely exasperated by people simply not reading things properly...

 

[Diyisfun]

ban-all-sheds

What is difficult is to avoid getting extremely exasperated by people simply not reading things properly...

I agree with that & can understand.

I had read the document on line & have now printed it & read it again.
To me it seems ambiguous, you are a sparky & have a need to understand what is meant, but my reading of it implies that you cannot replace the item in the kitchen.

ps
I do understand the difference between 'adding' & 'replacing', but could well be confused by 'adding a replacement'

 

[ban-all-sheds]

you are a sparky

No I'm not.

but my reading of it implies that you cannot replace the item in the kitchen.

Sorry - it is perfectly clear and unambiguous.

From (1) You do not have to notify the replacement of switches etc

From (2) You only have to notify the addition of switches if it's in a kitchen or other special location.

I do understand the difference between 'adding' & 'replacing',

Then why are you reading the law incorrectly?

 

[Diyisfun]

ban-all-sheds

Then why are you reading the law incorrectly?

Im not reading incorrectly, Im reading it & thought it ambiguous.

It may well be clear to you, what I am saying is that it isnt clear to me.

I have just telephoned my local council to ask, they had to confer & agreed it wasnt clear but would become clearer as time goes on (there words not mine).
But yes they agree with you.

There is no need to say ' told you so', but I am pleased that MY council also had doubts.