Copper pipes vs plastic

[ddc]

when i did domestic heating, we only used the plastic for under floors and in voids where its not on show, which its perfect for! any pipework on show tho we did in copper

 

[namsag]

Tell you what softus . As most of your callouts are to worn out or corroded copper pipe next time when you get a bit of copper pipe that has worn out by water passing through it give me a call and i will gladly come and see it at my own expense.And as for collating facts and figure regards failure you seem to have done this so what are you precise findings.... As for why don`t i know plastic pipe and fittings have been installed right ...

Well usually they are hidden in the fabric of the building and no i don`t need to know it`s been installed properly . Well not untill it jumps off

It doesn`t matter how well You SOFTUS installs plastic an awful lot of it is installed by diyers or guys on price work and the failure rate is far more than copper weeks and months afterwards, which doesn`t happen with copper pipe or fittings that is fact as everyone in the industry knows purely by chatting to each other.

Oh and i have tried plastic but as most of my work is central heating installs i prefer the more proffesional approach which is neater, longer lasting and if i get a leak it shows up when i am there not 6 months later when a fitting just jumps off regardless who`s fault it is and flood a house.


As for time saving drilling holes and feeding pipes through i disagree a correctly set up circular saw to cut joists an lay pipes in is far quicker

 

[Softus]

Tell you what softus . As most of your callouts are to worn out or corroded copper pipe...

Tell you what namsag - read my post again. It said:

...most of my callouts to leaks...

...next time when you get a bit of copper pipe that has worn out by water passing through it give me a call and i will gladly come and see it at my own expense.

That's not a very appealing offer, so I must decline. If you don't understand then just say so, but I'm talking about leaks where the pipe is so thin that either someone has attempted to work on it and it's crumpled and splits, or it's pinholed by some corrosion. If you've never seen either of these happen then I guess you just haven't seen enough action yet.

And as for collating facts and figure regards failure you seem to have done this

No - I haven't done this, which is why I ask all of those people who are do dead set against plastic to reveal their findings. They never do of course.

...an awful lot of it is installed by diyers or guys on price work and the failure rate is far more than copper weeks and months afterwards, which doesn`t happen with copper pipe or fittings that is fact as everyone in the industry knows purely by chatting to each other.

Yeah - those chats are really objective aren't they.

Oh and i have tried plastic but as most of my work is central heating installs i prefer the more proffesional approach which is neater, longer lasting and if i get a leak it shows up when i am there not 6 months later when a fitting just jumps off regardless who`s fault it is and flood a house.

Well if you installed the pushfit fittings, which is what you keep harping on about (instead of keeping to the topic and discussing plastic pipe), then it's your fault if they jump off.

I was waiting for you to use the word "professional" in the context of 'always using copper because everything else is cr*p' argument.

BTW, copper isn't guaranteed for 50 years.

As for time saving drilling holes and feeding pipes through i disagree a correctly set up circular saw to cut joists an lay pipes in is far quicker

Fine - you have your methods - I can respect that. However, I've never yet lifted a floorboard and found pipes in notches to have been protected from screw and nail damage.

 

[ollski]

And as for collating facts and figure regards failure you seem to have done this

No - I haven't done this, which is why I ask all of those people who are do dead set against plastic to reveal their findings. They never do of course.

As far as I can work out then it is a matter of opinion on both sides and you cannot argue against an opinion. Mine is still that plastic is cheap and nasty, but I suppose plastic pipe suits modern cardboard houses.

 

[Softus]

The thing is ollski, it isn't all about opinion.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the look of copper - we all do. But those who claim that anything else is always worse make their claims on the basis of supposed fact, not their opinions. And yet, when asked for more details about those facts, nothing never emerges; instead they just get abusive.

 

[Alfredo]

I've never used plastic myself, but just as with copper, I have seen impressive installations using plastic, and a few so dreadful I was embarrassed to consider that the perpetrator called himself a plumber.

Its still fairly new stuff, and I have a feeling we will see and use a lot more if it as the price differential of copper/plastic widens.

As with anything new, imaginative installers will find imaginative ways of using it well, and the cowboys...will always be cowboys. Somethings never change whatever material is used.

I'm not that brilliant at copper pipework if i'm truthful, and its hell working with a guy who won a national prize for his copper work a few years ago. His work is so neat and well formed its almost art. The odd thing is he hates doing it!! I'm not sure plastic pipework could ever look as good.

Alfredo

 

[Softus]

Its still fairly new stuff...

http://www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk/company7.htm

Hep2O® Development Highlights

Date System Developments
1979 Launch of original Acorn product range

Not that new.

 

[Alfredo]

Softus,

1979 is still ten years after the yanks landed on the moon and at least a couple of thousand years since lead piping began. Thats fairly new as far as I am concerned. In which case the take up has been comparatively low.

Alfredo

 

[Steve__M]

Pros -

1. in a new build house, all plastic can be hidden behind plasterboard. Pipes come out of wall behind radiator so cannot be seen. Radiators can easily be removed and replaced during redecoration, often without detaching the valves.

2. in a retrofit, pipes can go through the middle of the joists rather than notching joists which, I'm advised, is structurally better. You can always use copper as a final connection if appearance is a concern.

Cons -

1. pipes come down from the ceiling in downstairs rooms, and it's hard to find the pipes behind plasterboard walls when fitting curtain rails and pictures (2 of my neighbours put screws into their pipes.).

2. Contractors can now hire monkeys to make final connections, and monkeys aren't too careful. I had two leaks because the installer did not check the ends of the pipe for damage before putting on the connector. I'm guessing that he probably damaged it by taking off a connector, and didn't re-cut it before putting on a new one. I also found a number of (Osmagold) connectors which had not been screwed up properly implying that they'd been reused.

3. Plastic has a narrower bore than copper, and the different manufacturers give different advice as to whether you might need to use, say 15mm plastic instead of 10mm copper.

I am not a plumber. This is based on personal experience of a new-build, fixing the aforesaid leaks, and research into installing radiators in a buy-to-let.

 

[arctic]

I think both have valid uses, plastic is cheaper and quicker in my opinion but isn't any good when the pipes are surface mounted.

I think one of the problems with plastic is that the different manufacturers products aren't interchangable which is a bit of a pain but any 15 mm copper works with any 15 mm copper fitting.

I was in B&Q the other day and they have a full range of push fit copper fittings which I'm sure are no better or worse than plastic push fit.

I'm suprised you can't buy a solvent weldable plastic solution yet, which would allay some of the fears associated with plastic push fit products.

Kev

 

[oilman]

The thing is ollski, it isn't all about opinion.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the look of copper - we all do.

Do we? Who is "we"? Have you conducted a survey to establish the validity of this statement. "ALL" can only be one condition, in which EVERYBODY agrees, even one dissenter means "ALL" is no longer justified.

 

[towman]

I
I'm suprised you can't buy a solvent weldable plastic solution yet, which would allay some of the fears associated with plastic push fit products.

Kev

You can - ABS or PVC or CPVC pressure pipe - valves are a bit pricey though! Needs to be pretty big pipe though if you want decent performance/pressures with hot water. Reasonably easy to work with - and the solvent smells great!

 

[GrahamT]

Personally, I use both regularly as they have they're own benefits. I prefer to drill in the centre of joists and stitch plastic through, rather than notch for copper. There is a lot of snobbery about using plastic and I have subbed for one firm who would not touch it, but would happily cut customers floorboards and joist to ribbons.

 

[Softus]

Thats fairly new as far as I am concerned. In which case the take up has been comparatively low.

I see. So what has the take up been, and what would you call a "high" take up?

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

1979 is still ten years after the yanks landed on the moon and at least a couple of thousand years since lead piping began.

Alfredo your head is apparently in Rome doing what the Romans did 2000 years ago.

In 1979 they were selling us washing machines which were full of plastic pipes and parts. This millennium the Romans are selling us hi-tech boilers with plastic water bearing parts in them. Plastic pipes of various forms are here to stay at least until the oil runs out and Romans are now generally referred to as Italians.

Maybe you should now consider moving with the times.