Coronavirus: China rejects call for probe into origins of disease

[LargeWrench]

Perhaps his opinion is different to everyone else, simply because he is wrong.
You obviously believe that everyone else is wrong, and Trump is the only one who is correct, despite there being no evidence to support his view or yours.

David Icke takes similar views on quite a few things, i.e. form an opinion without any evidence. It's called blind faith.

I wasn't just talking about the origin of the virus to be fair. I was talking about China in general.

What exactly did I say that was wrong though. Do they regularly arrest people who dare to speak out? Do they currently have millions of Muslims locked up in a camp in order to 're-educate' them? Have you read up about the belt and road initiative in Africa? Have they built man made islands in the south China Sea in order to aggressively lay claims to it? Do they bully other nations in the UN into ignoring the existence of Taiwan? Non of the above is any conspiracy theory, its all fact and is information freely available. China has a sole aim of becoming the dominant world power and will do whatever is takes to reach that aim.

 

[bernardgreen]

About Trump

he's one of the only leaders who seems to understand whats going on with China.

I don't think he does understand China, he may think he understands the Chinese but I fear the Chinese are successfully deceiving him and he cannot see that.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I wasn't just talking about the origin of the virus to be fair. I was talking about China in general.

What exactly did I say that was wrong though. Do they regularly arrest people who dare to speak out? Do they currently have millions of Muslims locked up in a camp in order to 're-educate' them? Have you read up about the belt and road initiative in Africa? Have they built man made islands in the south China Sea in order to aggressively lay claims to it? Do they bully other nations in the UN into ignoring the existence of Taiwan? Non of the above is any conspiracy theory, its all fact and is information freely available. China has a sole aim of becoming the dominant world power and will do whatever is takes to reach that aim.

I see. You believe Trump's version of the origin of the virus because you have other reservations about China's behaviour on the world stage?
As you have quite a few issues that you have concerns about, why not add anything else you can think of (or Trump can think of).
Do you think that is a sensible attitude?

What about other country's behaviour on the world stage? Let us take US as an example:
Electing a leader who boasts about grabbing women by the genitals?
Electing a leader who has had several businesses go bankrupt leaving many others with debts and out of work?
Electing a leader who suggests injecting oneself with disinfectant might be worth a try?
Electing a leader who thinks and tells the population not to worry, the virus will magically disappear in daylight?
Perhaps having one of the highest murder rates in the world?
Starting wars around the world.?
De-stabilising governments?
Trying to force regime changes in other countries?
Placing trade embargoes on other countries?
Reneging on International Treaties?
Refusing independent investigations into issues?
Not signing up to international agreements?

I'm just guessing about some of those issues, but if it suits my suspicions I'll believe it, so maybe I'm just like you really.
Not a sensible attitude though is it?

 

[LargeWrench]

Since when has it been trumps version of the virus? I felt it was suspicious weeks before Trump ever mentioned a link to the Wuhan lab. That was after I'd read many different articles from journalists based in Hong Kong and Taiwan. Trump is just the only leader that dares to say out loud what many western politicians say in private. It's not just Trump that thinks there may be a link, it's just at the moment other westerns leaders are worried that China will cut off supplies of PPE if they speak out. Australia have taken a hard line too and China has threatened to stop investment into Australia if it continues. That's what prevents other countries from calling them out. Tom Tugendhat has spoken about it numerous times and thinks our relationship needs to radically change once this is over.

As I've said, I'm no fan of Trump and I hope he doesn't get re-elected this year. But you can't let your view of him or America detract from the actual content. The guy is a clown but the stuff he is calling China out for has been well known in private for years amongst western nations. It's just that other leaders wouldn't speak out so openly and rightly or wrongly Trump isn't a 'standard' politician so just says it how it is. They've spent decades stealing western technology and we've let them get away with it for far too long. The Chinese communist party will be around long after Trump has gone, this is a long term issue that isn't going away. America has many faults but the most telling thing for me is that us in the west have the freedom to critisise him without the risk of being arrested or our views being censored. I'd far rather live in a world based on the rights of democracy and the freedom of expression rather than a totalitarian world where our news is censored and anyone who speaks out is at risk of arrest.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I'd far rather live in a world based on the rights of democracy and the freedom of expression rather than a totalitarian world where our news is censored and anyone who speaks out is at risk of arrest.

That's fine. What about when that freedom of expression is exploited to spread fake news, and divert attention away from one's own failings and mismanagement?
Do we automatically believe it because it was expressed under "freedom of expression"?
Or what about democracy allowing such high murder rates due to gun ownership?
Or "freedom of expression" used to de-stabilse other governments?
What about when the type of democracy leads to useless and incompetent government, swinging violently from one extreme to the other? (e.g. first past the post)
What about when democracy leads to corrupt, misogynistic and dishonest politicians that are more interested in their own finances and careers than the good of the nation? Or even politicians that crave the power?

Democracy has its pitfalls and problems. Freedom of expression creates its own issues.
I would rather live in a world of democracy and allowing freedom of expression, but that doesn't mean that I don't see the wood for the trees, throw the baby out with the bathwater, or "first, remove the beam out of my own eye, and then I can see clearly to remove the speck out of my brother's eye."


I suspect your view of China is coloured by the opinions of such leaders whose government is just as guilty of such misdemeanours as those for which they point the finger at other governments. It's a case of blame the others, they're the problem.

 

[Brigadier]

He's back.

 

[Notch7]

He's back.

And back with pent up keyboard warrior frustration

I dont think we should give the game away -let the poor chap vent his frustration we dont want to be the cause of an exploding head.

I shall start: "there is no such thing as racism"

 

[noseall]

China has a sole aim of becoming the dominant world power and will do whatever is takes to reach that aim.

How does that differ from other nations whose aim it was to dominate previously? Is it fair or unfair that China or any other nation should have their crack at 'Westernised' decadence/dominance? Do you think the USA should be the only top dog?
Who do you think is fuelling Chinas rise to the top?

 

[Notch7]

How does that differ from other nations whose aim it was to dominate previously? Is it fair or unfair that China or any other nation should have their crack at 'Westernised' decadence/dominance? Do you think the USA should be the only top dog?

The British Empire did it.

and in terms of Africa, the Chinese are hardly the first country to rape African resources.

 

[Brigadier]

How does that differ from other nations whose aim it was to dominate previously? Is it fair or unfair that China or any other nation should have their crack at 'Westernised' decadence/dominance?

Depends on how they go about it.
And the Westernised decadence point is a red herring.

 

[JohnD]

Depends on how they go about it.
And the Westernised decadence point is a red herring.

did you mean to publish that link?

"Credit Suisse survey shows Brexit effect has reduced number of UK millionaires by 27,000"

 

[Brigadier]

I did, because we were talking about China's burgeoning wealthy class.

 

[noseall]

Depends on how they go about it

You mean like to declare war or colonise and occupy.

 

[noseall]

the Westernised decadence point is a red herring.

You mean they are successful at it and will do what is necessary to continue.

 

[Brigadier]

You mean like to declare war or colonise and occupy.

I am not excusing what went before, any more than I would excuse what goes on now, nor might go on in the future.

You asked if it was fair that China was now making a stake for global superiority. I gave an opinion.
In my opinion, they are at liberty to do so, but they must also be accountable for their actions and methods. Same as anyone else.