CU change query for pro sparks

[nozspark]

Whilst in the wholesalers today I was having a chat with a couple of other sparks concerning CU replacements. They were both of the opinion that you can replace a CU with an undersized Main earth and/or missing main bonding to some or all services, so long as it is noted on the EIC.

I was under the impression that all earthing had to be either up to standard or confirmed as being adequate before work of this nature could be undertaken.

Personally I would carry out a PIR, repair/correct any serious defects and then change the CU, giving the customer an EIC.

Who's right??

 

[Spark123]

If you are working to the IEE regs then the earthing/bonding must be upgraded first, I think it is in the fundamental principles at the front of the brown book.

 

[nozspark]

Thought that was the case, just wanted it confirming.
I think what they do is get the jobs cheap (no remedial work) and then say 'by the way you need this/that doing as it's dangerous'....second job

 

[RF Lighting]

Surely the replacement of an undersized main earth is part of the mains change job, just like if you discovered undersized tails, you wouldn't leave these in service, and besides how much more effort is it to slap in a proper sized main earth while you are on with the mains change?

As for the bonding, then maybe you could get away with it is in 6mm², but there is no way you should fit a CU and leave it without any MEB.

We would be booted straight out of the NICEIC if we were to do a mains change and leave it without MEB, wether it was put on the EIC as a deviation or not.

 

[nozspark]

They look at it from the point that they have improoved the installation, but don't the regs say that you should only carry out additions/modifications once you have assertained that the installation is capable of supplying those additions/modifications safely - not the exact words but isn't that the gist of it.

 

[securespark]

This extract is from the 15th (1981) - I know it's old - I have back-issues in the office and my current one is in the van. For reasons I won't go into, I can't be bothered to go and get it, but I don't think it's changed much:

Additions and alterations to an installation.

No additions or alterations, temporary or permanent shall be made to an existing installation unless it has been ascertained.............................
...................that the earthing arrangements are also adequate.

 

[EddieCurrent]

Hello
I am not qualified , but do see that say if 'Mr smith' wants say an extra socket put in you could do the work required, then note the 'bonding' departures from 7671 on the minor works cert, which should lead to the customer wanting the work done if they have any sense.
Otherwise you could end up with a quote for a lot of bucks for what the customer see's as a 'simple' socket.
Having said that, when somebody asks you how much it would cost to fit an extra skt, do you have to price for checking the whole set-up ?, do you test the existing circuit fully to check its properties, ( or just do an efli test! ), if so I think it sounds like more hassle than its worth !
Please explain !!!

 

[securespark]

We always quote including bonding. We cannot do any work other than maintenance without automatically doing the MEB's.

 

[sparky111]

So what everyone is saying is we should leave people with old wire fuseboards instaed of upgrading to RCD/MCB CU! surely any upgrade with or without correct sizing of bonding is better than leaving it altogether.. No?!.

Safer or not Safer to change CU

 

[sparkyspike]

Well it's safer, but not a complete job. Like a mechanic changing the discs on your car when your brake pads are worn out.

 

[Steve]

So what everyone is saying is we should leave people with old wire fuseboards instaed of upgrading to RCD/MCB CU! surely any upgrade with or without correct sizing of bonding is better than leaving it altogether.. No?!.

Safer or not Safer to change CU

The original post was made oer 2 years ago, before the 17th edition was even thought about. And nobody on this forum is condoning anything dangerous, unsafe or bad.

 

[captaincargo]

Working as a spark for the council the very first thing checked is the Ze which also includes a visual of the main earth sizing ,followed by resistance and again visual tests on the main eqipotential bonding to any incoming service`s,gas,water etc. If any of these are not to the regs then no more testing is carried out until said deviations are put right.