Danesmoor 15/19 Boiler Lockout
- Thread starter mutley123
- Start date
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I have just picked up on this thread and would like to ask the diagnostic wizards out there for some help. My boiler maintenance bill for lockouts is huge and the problem is never sorted. The problem vanishes in warm weather but as soon as frost comes - boiler locks out. Boiler man says I need a new oil pump - which is obsolete - ergo, I need a new boiler etc, etc - bill = £5000. Can anyone advise 
What boiler/pump/burner do you have?
Hi Oilhead - The boiler is a Danesmoor 15/19 Pressure Jet Model 10 S. No 78101205 (approx 30 years old!). The burner is an Inter (?). It has new water pump and diverter valve - so they are fine. I would really like to survive another winter without having to buy a new boiler though mine is now only 70% efficient. I hope you can offer some solace
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I've yet to see an Inter burner that has a fuel pump that cannot be replaced with a current BFP. The oil nozzle pipe needs a little tender reforming, or replaced with a high pressure flexi.
Has your boiler man ever changed a filter? If problem is with cold weather, could be fuel supply problems.
Has your boiler man ever changed a filter? If problem is with cold weather, could be fuel supply problems.
Water in the tank filter bowl, maybe?
John
John
Hi Oilhead and Burnerman - Thanks for your input.
The maintenance guy removed a sheet of ice from the filter bowl during the cold spell and changed the filter (type) but I think there is a good chance that there is more water in there. The same guy did not offer me a different burner so I will have to find someone who will do the replacement job for me
The maintenance guy removed a sheet of ice from the filter bowl during the cold spell and changed the filter (type) but I think there is a good chance that there is more water in there. The same guy did not offer me a different burner so I will have to find someone who will do the replacement job for me
It seems that there is nothing wrong with your burner, revin - more like water contamination in your tank! Any burner would be defeated by that one.
Maybe your tank has a bung at its lowest point - where the fuel can be drained and allowed to settle so only the kerosene can be poured back in?
Sometimes tanks are mounted so that they slope slightly backwards so water collects at that lowest point? Levelling the thing off usually allows the water to be drained away - easy enough if its a steel tank.
In the mean time, i'd suggest regular examination of the tank filter bowl - if you can post a pic we should be able to identify it.
John
Maybe your tank has a bung at its lowest point - where the fuel can be drained and allowed to settle so only the kerosene can be poured back in?
Sometimes tanks are mounted so that they slope slightly backwards so water collects at that lowest point? Levelling the thing off usually allows the water to be drained away - easy enough if its a steel tank.
In the mean time, i'd suggest regular examination of the tank filter bowl - if you can post a pic we should be able to identify it.
John
Hi John - Please see attached pictures of filter and line to boiler (below ground level shown). The tank has a slight fall - towards the oil outlet. I think it could be jacked up a bit when the oil level has dropped. The oil in the bowl looks clean. Thanks for your interest and input
John - Burnerman - Please see layout of line to boiler to give full picture of tank alongside our side wall. We inherited this configuration
It seems like a perfectly good installation - ideally these plastic tanks should be put on a perfectly flat and level base, and they certainly don't take kindly to being tipped up.
So, check regularly for the appearance of water in the filter bowl, and make sure the polythene level pipe has a cap on the top.
Is the tank sited much higher than the burner?
The only other thing that I can think of -as the problem manifests itself in cold weather only - is that cold air is much denser than warm air, and therefore heavier.....so the burner has to purge the flue effectively for a cold start. Its also vital for the burner pump to provide the correct pressure - and this could be your problem.
John
So, check regularly for the appearance of water in the filter bowl, and make sure the polythene level pipe has a cap on the top.
Is the tank sited much higher than the burner?
The only other thing that I can think of -as the problem manifests itself in cold weather only - is that cold air is much denser than warm air, and therefore heavier.....so the burner has to purge the flue effectively for a cold start. Its also vital for the burner pump to provide the correct pressure - and this could be your problem.
John
Thanks again John - I really did not want to start jacking the tank around! The tank is over 2 metres above the boiler. Your point about air pressure is interesting. The boiler is old and inefficient with the baffles very worn - could that be another clue? Also, I have noticed that there is a slightly warm patch on the internal wall adjacent to the flue - any comment?
One point worth noting is that I have no difficulty overcoming the lockout - the boiler lights first time on manual - it is just a pain getting up at 6 to a cold house!
At the start of this discussion I said I do not want to invest in a new boiler for another year. The other point is that I do not want to experience the same problems with a new unit.
Keep thinking - I am very grateful for your help - and that of others
One point worth noting is that I have no difficulty overcoming the lockout - the boiler lights first time on manual - it is just a pain getting up at 6 to a cold house!
At the start of this discussion I said I do not want to invest in a new boiler for another year. The other point is that I do not want to experience the same problems with a new unit.
Keep thinking - I am very grateful for your help - and that of others
Good morning Kevin
It seems like you have a fairly ideal installation tank wise there, so as long as the filters are clean etc there's nothing to worry about.
The fact that your boiler is ancient (like mine - a Thorn Panda about the same age) shouldn't be an issue either.
Obviously we have no idea about your current flue set up, but one of the most important issues to allow a clean start up every time is the 'purge phase' of the burner.
This is where the burner motor and fan starts revolving for about 8 seconds before the oil is switched on electronically by means of a solenoid.
This 8 second run blows fresh, oxygenated air though your boiler, ready for ignition.
If the flue is impeded in any way, either by excess soot or baffle distortion then this purge situation is compromised somewhat....however, a flue gas analysis should show up any discrepancies here. With the oil pump pressure set at the manufacturers recommendation and a decent nozzle fitted, the CO2 level should be around the 11% mark.
If the oil pump can't achieve this pressure, then as oilhead suggests, a Danfoss BFP series pump can probably be fitted - but I have no personal experience of this.
Its also a good idea to check to see if the correct nozzle is fitted, if you have the data...the spray angle is particularly important.
Bear in mind that you can get complete burners for around £350 if you think that is the route for you. Personally, my own system stays how it is until water starts coming out of the bottom.....
As for the warm patch on the wall, I wouldn't worry too much about that - flue temperatures on these old boilers was much higher than modern ones.
If your baffles have corroded or been burnt away, they are fairly easy to fabricate yourself from mild steel....again, personal experience!
John
It seems like you have a fairly ideal installation tank wise there, so as long as the filters are clean etc there's nothing to worry about.
The fact that your boiler is ancient (like mine - a Thorn Panda about the same age) shouldn't be an issue either.
Obviously we have no idea about your current flue set up, but one of the most important issues to allow a clean start up every time is the 'purge phase' of the burner.
This is where the burner motor and fan starts revolving for about 8 seconds before the oil is switched on electronically by means of a solenoid.
This 8 second run blows fresh, oxygenated air though your boiler, ready for ignition.
If the flue is impeded in any way, either by excess soot or baffle distortion then this purge situation is compromised somewhat....however, a flue gas analysis should show up any discrepancies here. With the oil pump pressure set at the manufacturers recommendation and a decent nozzle fitted, the CO2 level should be around the 11% mark.
If the oil pump can't achieve this pressure, then as oilhead suggests, a Danfoss BFP series pump can probably be fitted - but I have no personal experience of this.
Its also a good idea to check to see if the correct nozzle is fitted, if you have the data...the spray angle is particularly important.
Bear in mind that you can get complete burners for around £350 if you think that is the route for you. Personally, my own system stays how it is until water starts coming out of the bottom.....
As for the warm patch on the wall, I wouldn't worry too much about that - flue temperatures on these old boilers was much higher than modern ones.
If your baffles have corroded or been burnt away, they are fairly easy to fabricate yourself from mild steel....again, personal experience!
John
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