Dilemma about a central heating boiler

[Lucky Luke]

I expect your heating is off now, by the room thermostat. Make sure that at least one of your radiators is turned on at its knobs, and feel it to be sure it is cold. Then start running a hot bath. Do any of the radiators start to get warm? If so, it will indicate that some of the heat that should be going to your hot tap water, is escaping to warm the radiators. Not an unusual fault.

Thanks, John D. It's not possible to do that test right now, but I will try it when I am able to.

 

[AGAS]

op , you said you had it serviced since installation so i think you will still have your warranty , it doesn't matter if vaillant hasn't serviced it themselves . if a registered gas safe engineer has serviced it every year it is still valid, if so have a chat with vaillant ( you might be on phone for a while but I'm sure you would be ok ) and they would sort it free of charge , have you still got the safety certs or the back of your manual filled in of the checks that were done every year ?
keep us posted of how you get on

 

[Lucky Luke]

op , you said you had it serviced since installation so i think you will still have your warranty , it doesn't matter if vaillant hasn't serviced it themselves . if a registered gas safe engineer has serviced it every year it is still valid, if so have a chat with vaillant ( you might be on phone for a while but I'm sure you would be ok ) and they would sort it free of charge , have you still got the safety certs or the back of your manual filled in of the checks that were done every year ?
keep us posted of how you get on

Agas: No, as I said earlier, it has not been serviced every year. It was serviced last year (July 2015) for the first time. However, I think that it still would be under warranty, because of the letters that came from Vaillant, that if we had it serviced (in various years), we would enjoy warranty protection. That was in spite of missing the first two years' services! We have kept the document issued by the service engineer, last year.

 

[AGAS]

This man has serviced the boiler since its installation, but he is not the one that installed it — he is a different firm. Again, this man has a reputable company and is fully trained.

they do send these out when the boiler was registered but it would not hurt to ring them and say what you do have ,they can only say no , but i think you might have problems regarding warranty . tbh i don't know what they mean by "in various years " , but see what they say anyway ,

anyway , if you do this test what we have suggested then at least you know where you stand and expect with regards your boiler . keep us posted with your progress

EDIT ; you should always get your boiler checked every year to be on the safe side, just in case you don't know , there a difference between a service and a safety check . you should at least have your boiler safety checked every year

 

[picasso]

24 Kilowatt combis are woeful in the winter, if you have the space and your pressure/flow are ok an unvented cylinder might be a better option, you can keep your original boiler but use it to heat the cylinder.

 

[DP]

OP, as said earlier, your boiler should raise incoming cold water temperature by 35 degrees when hot water is running flat out (metered) at 9.8l/ min

The boiler can only deliver this if there is no flow to your radiators while hit tap is running

Try altering the HW thermostat on the boiler and see if that makes a difference

A boiler service is a good starting point but service has to be what the manual says instead of make believe as often is the case.

By the way, your boiler should deliver far better flow of hot water than your electric shower

I am with the guy who fitted the boiler, but present one is voicing his opinion in response to your worries. Am a little surprised though, he did not carry out rudimentary checks on your boiler, perhaps he was there to check hot water delivery only, in which case rudimentary checks would have highlighted any issues, after all you have been happy with your boiler until recently and there was no need for a boiler to serviced hot water needs in public baths instead of for two 'young' people living a life of comfort and harmony

 

[Lucky Luke]

by the sounds of it your installer is having you on with regards to getting a bigger boiler you don't need a bigger boiler , you need to do some work to help diagnose your boiler .

Agas: This is a late reply, after rather a long wait for an engineer to come. However, there is rather a long history to the problem we have been having (hot tap delivering only tepid water, with a Vaillant EcoTECH Plus 824). I am posting this reply, after the problem has been cured, for the sake of anyone else that may be being driven mad by the same problem. The first thing to relate is that, nearly four years ago, an installing engineer fitted the boiler, also a Fernox magnetic filter. He said that cleaning it could be left until he came to do a service, in 12 months. Shortly after this, however, he went out of business, and we did not have a service for two years. All that time, the goo would have been building up on the Fernox magnet, but, trusting what the engineer had said, it did not worry me. Meanwhile, the hot water was OK, and I forgot about it. Then, after three years' use, a relative told me that he knew how to clean a Fernox (he has one), and he showed me how to do it (which the engineer did not). He said that it ought to be cleaned every month. So, I started to clean the Fernox every three months (thinking that, if the engineer had said it would be OK for twelve months, a three month period would be ample attention). Then, at three years' boiler use, I had a fresh engineer in, to do a service. He also said that it would be OK to leave the Fernox for 12 months, until his next service, and, since I had cleaned it only two months ago, and told him this, he did not clean it himself.

After this, when the next winter (Jan 2016 onwards) arrived, we found out that the water was nowhere near hot. I kept tinkering with the settings, thinking that perhaps the DHW setting was too low or something, and meanwhile, searching for answers on the Web. In May this year, I called in a different engineer, to give me an opinion about the cause of the lukewarm water. This is the one that tried to sell me a more powerful boiler, and that said the 824 was not adequate. He said he would reduce the flow (which he did, which made the DHW temperature a bit better, but the flow was pathetically weak). Being a bit more aware now, from my researches on the Web, I pressed him to find out whether the diverter valve was defective, and he promised to come a week later and do that. He never did come, but instead, he phoned me with a price for a new, more powerful boiler. Since I did not trust him, or what he had told me, I then asked yet another engineer to look at the boiler. This man came in July (2016). He took out different parts to investigate, including the heat exchanger. He said that this had muck caked on it, and that this was the cause of the water being only tepid. After sloshing water around in the heat exchanger, he said that this needed to be replaced, as it would not clean up, and that he would come back in three days, to fit a new one. He also told me that, because the Fernox filter had been left for the two years before any flushing, then cleaned only every three months after that, the sludge had got into the system, and had built up on the heat exchanger. When he left, the water was still only lukewarm (which he knew about, of course). However, while running this tepid water, it suddenly failed altogether, and ran stone cold. Naturally, I went to the boiler. On the display was an alert, which said something like this: Safety switch-off (etc.). So, I pressed the reset button, went inside to test the water again, and, suddenly, it started flowing very hot indeed! Also, the flow rate was excellent. Since then, it has consistently produced really hot water — so much so that it has needed to be reduced to 52º. I rang the engineer, who told me that all the pressure that he had applied had broken up the film of muck on the heat exchanger, and it had fallen off. Further, he said that this muck (and much more, from the neglected flushing of the Fernox filter) was still in the system, and that this needed to have a power-flush. I agreed to this, and this will be done very soon.

To conclude: the Vaillant EcoTECH Plus 824 is not inadequate at all — it is a darned good boiler, and I now have no regrets about having it installed. I hope this long-winded history proves useful to some other innocent, who, because of ignorance, may be in danger of being ripped off. From now on, the Fernox will be cleaned every month!

 

[snes]

I believe Dan has a very poor opinion of the Fernox mag cleaner - the above saga would tend to show why.

Well done alwaysworried for reporting back - glad you got the issue sorted!

 

[Lucky Luke]

I believe Dan has a very poor opinion of the Fernox mag cleaner - the above saga would tend to show why.

snes: Are you able, without being accused of advertising in this forum, to say what a better kind of filter is called, and why?

 

[snes]

I have had excellent results from the Adey Magnaclean - but again, Dan has much experience in this area and will hopefully add to this thread with further recommendations.

 

[AGAS]

Agas: This is a late reply, after rather a long wait for an engineer to come. However, there is rather a long history to the problem we have been having (hot tap delivering only tepid water, with a Vaillant EcoTECH Plus 824). I am posting this reply, after the problem has been cured, for the sake of anyone else that may be being driven mad by the same problem. The first thing to relate is that, nearly four years ago, an installing engineer fitted the boiler, also a Fernox magnetic filter. He said that cleaning it could be left until he came to do a service, in 12 months. Shortly after this, however, he went out of business, and we did not have a service for two years. All that time, the goo would have been building up on the Fernox magnet, but, trusting what the engineer had said, it did not worry me. Meanwhile, the hot water was OK, and I forgot about it. Then, after three years' use, a relative told me that he knew how to clean a Fernox (he has one), and he showed me how to do it (which the engineer did not). He said that it ought to be cleaned every month. So, I started to clean the Fernox every three months (thinking that, if the engineer had said it would be OK for twelve months, a three month period would be ample attention). Then, at three years' boiler use, I had a fresh engineer in, to do a service. He also said that it would be OK to leave the Fernox for 12 months, until his next service, and, since I had cleaned it only two months ago, and told him this, he did not clean it himself.

yes well you have got messed around a bit by as*holes ( bulls*tters) haven't you , people like that gives the rest of honest gas engineers a bad name and makes you cautious of those good engineers that visit you in the future . a thing to remember for future ( but not full proof ) is get a repair gas engineer not a gas installer . as for cleaning after the install is a joke because its already doing its damage but would advise getting your boiler serviced every year, and i mean a proper service not a safety check because of the shyte that has entered your boiler and tell the engineer ( repair engineer ) why , you need a power flush because you haven't dealt with the problem and will probably come back because the shyte is still in your system
( sooner the better ) . anyway thanks alwaysworried for your feedback for others and hopefully you don't suffer these as*holes again