Dimplex Quantum or Creda TRSE?

[bullethead123]

Hi all,

I have to make a decision as to which storage heaters to put in my rental flat.

My EPC inspector recommended High Heat Retention (HHR) ones but they are very expensive compared to standard LOT20 types.

As an example, the Dimplex Quantum and the Creda TRSE seem very similar if you look at their relative specifications but the difference in price is huge - the Quantum, at £750, is £250 more expensive than the £500 Creda. As I have to buy 3 heaters, that's a lot extra to shell out.

With the ancient storage heaters currently fitted, the EPC rating is D (61). Newer LOT20 or HHR types would obviously improve this and the inspector says that HHR heaters would improve this by 8, scraping into a C rating but, given that any rating of E (39) or above is OK for letting, I see no reason why I shouldn't go for the cheaper option.

I guess I have 2 questions really:

What, exactly, is the difference between a HHR and a non-HHR heater and how much would the tenant be likely to save (if anything) in running costs?

The tenant is on EDF's Standard variable E7 tariff and pays (day) 24.77p/KWH, (night) 8.67p/KWH and has a standing charge of 24.13p/day.

 

[flameport]

What, exactly, is the difference between a HHR and a non-HHR heater

HHR can store more heat, and theoretically could be physically smaller for a given capacity, or retain heat for longer avoiding the need to use any top up heating at peak rate.

how much would the tenant be likely to save

In reality - next to nothing.

Dimplex is marketed as a 'premium' brand and is priced accordingly.
Other brands are available.
In terms of differences between them - very little. They all have the same basic components, and all have to comply with LOT20.

 

[bullethead123]

Thanks for the reply Flameport.
Yes. The Quantum claims to be able to store 4KWH more than the Creda. Having looked at the installation manuals for both though, they seem remarkably similar. The only difference can be the insulative properties. As the heaters I am getting are oversized anyway (2.7KW replacing 2.5KW) I don't think storage capacity will be a problem.

 

[crystal ball]

I installed some Quantums this year, they are well put together and my customer was impressed with the support from Dimplex setting up his account, so far so good as he is a bit errrrm clueless on tech stuff, but yes they are pricey

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi all,

I have to make a decision as to which storage heaters to put in my rental flat.

My EPC inspector recommended High Heat Retention (HHR) ones but they are very expensive compared to standard LOT20 types.

As an example, the Dimplex Quantum and the Creda TRSE seem very similar if you look at their relative specifications but the difference in price is huge - the Quantum, at £750, is £250 more expensive than the £500 Creda. As I have to buy 3 heaters, that's a lot extra to shell out.

With the ancient storage heaters currently fitted, the EPC rating is D (61). Newer LOT20 or HHR types would obviously improve this and the inspector says that HHR heaters would improve this by 8, scraping into a C rating but, given that any rating of E (39) or above is OK for letting, I see no reason why I shouldn't go for the cheaper option.

I guess I have 2 questions really:

What, exactly, is the difference between a HHR and a non-HHR heater and how much would the tenant be likely to save (if anything) in running costs?

The tenant is on EDF's Standard variable E7 tariff and pays (day) 24.77p/KWH, (night) 8.67p/KWH and has a standing charge of 24.13p/day.

I recently made changes in a rental flat, my EPC inspector advised HHR as my rating was just in the top of band D with 67 but she informed me the rules are going to change to band C which the HHR does with ease.

I replaced a pair of 35 year old 3.6 KW(Dual supply) & 1.8KW Dimplex with a single 3.3KW Quantum (EPC advice) and my tenant says a vast improvement on temperature control and lasting to the evening.

Also speak with your tenant to ensure NSH suit their needs, we agreed to change the bedroom NSH to a panel heater with time switch.

Dimplex also make heaters for Creda and another company, look at the specs closely, I came to the conclusion they are the same products. The significant difference was availability - pick it up from a wholesaler at my convenience or get it delivered to a property knowing the tenant is at work additionally I was able to get a trade price on Dimplex but not Creda but still didn't find the price gap you quote.

 

[bullethead123]

Thanks for your input Sunray.

According to the EPC documentation, any flat with a rating of 'E' or above is rentable at the mo and the average score is 60 (D). Would the government really sanction restricting this to C and above any time soon? Wouldn't such a move kill the rental sector?
Also, I am unconvinced as to the efficacy of storage heaters over the longer-term future when the need to use up constantly produced power (coal and gas fired) is replaced more and more by renewables. Indeed, when we are all driving electric cars, perhaps night-time electricity will become the new peak rate. Given this, it may be that government policy switches away from promoting storage heaters to favouring standard electric radiators/panel heaters.

I replaced a pair of 35 year old 3.6 KW(Dual supply) & 1.8KW Dimplex with a single 3.3KW Quantum (EPC advice) and my tenant says a vast improvement on temperature control and lasting to the evening.

This sounds amazing. After all a KW is a KW. Could it be that some of the elements or input controls were faulty on the 35-year-old units? I appreciate that the heat retention would be better on the quantum but my thinking is that the Creda's heat retention will be good enough - particulary as the new heaters will be 0.5KW larger than those they replace.

Also speak with your tenant to ensure NSH suit their needs, we agreed to change the bedroom NSH to a panel heater with time switch.

This is interesting. I guess you mean a panel heater running of the 24hr circuit set to come on just before bedtime and getting up time? That'd be a lot less faff - and expense - than bedroom storage heaters. Only problem is that the day rate is very high (3x the night rate) on the tenant's E7 tariff. Used sparingly though, it may work out cheaper I suppose.

Dimplex also make heaters for Creda and another company, look at the specs closely, I came to the conclusion they are the same products.

I came to the same conclusion myself. The only physical difference must be the insulation material. As Flameport says, the main reason for theprice difference between the two brands manufactured by the same company seems to be in the marketing.

As regards price differential, I couldnt seem to find cheaper versions of the Quantum (except individual sellers on ebay) but did find a discounted price for the Creda.

I think the decision is made - Now all I need is someone to haul all those bricks up 2 flights of stairs.

Thanks everyone, particularly you Sunray. I'll have a word with the tenant about timed, thermostat controlled panel heaters. I know I like a cool room to sleep in. It may be that (even a High Heat Retention) storage heater would make the bedroom uncomfortable in the early morning.

Chris.

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks for your input Sunray.

According to the EPC documentation, any flat with a rating of 'E' or above is rentable at the mo and the average score is 60 (D). Would the government really sanction restricting this to C and above any time soon? Wouldn't such a move kill the rental sector?
Also, I am unconvinced as to the efficacy of storage heaters over the longer-term future when the need to use up constantly produced power (coal and gas fired) is replaced more and more by renewables. Indeed, when we are all driving electric cars, perhaps night-time electricity will become the new peak rate. Given this, it may be that government policy switches away from promoting storage heaters to favouring standard electric radiators/panel heaters.


This sounds amazing. After all a KW is a KW. Could it be that some of the elements or input controls were faulty on the 35-year-old units? I appreciate that the heat retention would be better on the quantum but my thinking is that the Creda's heat retention will be good enough - particulary as the new heaters will be 0.5KW larger than those they replace.


This is interesting. I guess you mean a panel heater running of the 24hr circuit set to come on just before bedtime and getting up time? That'd be a lot less faff - and expense - than bedroom storage heaters. Only problem is that the day rate is very high (3x the night rate) on the tenant's E7 tariff. Used sparingly though, it may work out cheaper I suppose.


I came to the same conclusion myself. The only physical difference must be the insulation material. As Flameport says, the main reason for theprice difference between the two brands manufactured by the same company seems to be in the marketing.

As regards price differential, I couldnt seem to find cheaper versions of the Quantum (except individual sellers on ebay) but did find a discounted price for the Creda.

I think the decision is made - Now all I need is someone to haul all those bricks up 2 flights of stairs.

Thanks everyone, particularly you Sunray. I'll have a word with the tenant about timed, thermostat controlled panel heaters. I know I like a cool room to sleep in. It may be that (even a High Heat Retention) storage heater would make the bedroom uncomfortable in the early morning.

Chris.

Regards the bedroom, the tenant mentioned the NSH was hot first thing but cold by bedtime so they had stopped using it in favour of a fan heater for about 1 to 1½hrs (Most modern seem to be 2 to 2.5KW) let's say 4KWh per day as opposed to 3.6KW for upto 7 hours or 25KWh @ ⅜ the price. Looks like a no brainer.

Yes those bricks are heavy, fortunately removing 3 NSH's from a 1 bed ground floor flat I was able to place the bits outside the front door which leads straight into the living room and then get the car within 5ft to load and take away.


Check your EXACT model for asbestos on the register and handle/dispose of correctly.

 

[bullethead123]

Tenant fine with no heatng at all in bedroom. I'll wait til he leaves to pop a panel heater in.
Storage heaters are already removed. Carting 350odd Kg of brick down 2 flights was hard enough but carting the same weight UP 2 flights.....
Re asbestos: Creda stopped using it in 1975, mine were built after 1992.
Once again, I'm impressed with the quality of knowledge and good advice available on these forums.
Thanks all,
Chris.

 

[SUNRAY]

Tenant fine with no heatng at all in bedroom. I'll wait til he leaves to pop a panel heater in.
Storage heaters are already removed. Carting 350odd Kg of brick down 2 flights was hard enough but carting the same weight UP 2 flights.....
Re asbestos: Creda stopped using it in 1975, mine were built after 1992.
Once again, I'm impressed with the quality of knowledge and good advice available on these forums.
Thanks all,
Chris.

Make sure the replacement (panel) heater is in place before the next EPC or it will bite you.

I don't envy carrying the bricks up those steps with the state of my knees these days, as I said I was lucky with very short distances of 8m from bedroom and 4m from lounge to front door then 1.5m to the car, at other end dumped metal beside the drive for the scrappies to help themselves to and stacked the blocks 3m from the car with plans to use them as stepping stones in the veg patch. You can spread out the stairs work over the duration of the work, try looking for help at the local Gym and offer a free 'steps work out'. I think it's very annoying they had to came up with a different design otherwise a lot of the effort could have been avoided.

Mine needed the serial numbers as the asbestos was stopped the same year, i was lucky.

I'm here because I was looking for and found the advice I kneeded... opps that was 12 years ago. I've only have this NSH knowledge since Feb and also started on here. You are very welcome to have what I can help with.