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he'd have to answer why he hadn't chased the debt in 6 months.
Dispute / small claims help please
- Thread starter drewjak
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I would not go to court with that surveyors report.
He is not an expert, he's a valuation surveyor. Even though he presents himself as a RICS Fellow, his opinions are worth jack in relation to worktops and stone. A bloke from the factory who just shapes the worktops would carry more weight with a judge, and under the CPR.
You need an "expert" who is an expert (ie has experience or thorough knowledge) of the subject he is reporting on.
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there is no point getting an expert report until the claim proceeds.
Other than to get an understanding if the claim has a chance.
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from what i can see it's a consumer contract scenario with product/service failure within 6 months.
At this stage, not withstanding the challenge of proving a contract and payment, the cause of failure is down to the retailer to prove. over 6 months and the burden shifts to the consumer.
At this stage, not withstanding the challenge of proving a contract and payment, the cause of failure is down to the retailer to prove. over 6 months and the burden shifts to the consumer.
D
Doggit
I'm with Woody on this one; apart from the surveyor being more of a valuer, I don't think he's got the right idea, and you need another slate worktop installer to check it out. Have a chat with you're local Magnet store, and see if they know someone to come out, and offer a bottle of scotch for their time.
The pictures give us a general idea of what's happened, but doesn't clearly show why. There is a disparity in the heights of 5mm, so one of them has dropped, but as it shouldn't have done so by that much, it suggest that the kitchen base unit may have dropped on one side as well. Put a level on both sides, and across it, and find which side is out. It may be that the work top needs removing, the kitchen units re-levelled and supported underneath with blocks, and a couple of metal struts fitted across the base unit to provide support for the joint, but a butt joint should have been fitted over the carcase edge, not in the middle of a unit.
The supplier hasn't chased the debt, and the judge will pick up the implications of this, and he will realise that the worktops cost more than £900 to supply and install. Drewjak has been trying to resolve this for some time, so getting to court after 6 months is a natural progression, and still in his favour. And I can't see the fitter trying to counter claim for £2500, as it'd open a can of worms for him, and yes, definitely check for CCJ against him.
The pictures give us a general idea of what's happened, but doesn't clearly show why. There is a disparity in the heights of 5mm, so one of them has dropped, but as it shouldn't have done so by that much, it suggest that the kitchen base unit may have dropped on one side as well. Put a level on both sides, and across it, and find which side is out. It may be that the work top needs removing, the kitchen units re-levelled and supported underneath with blocks, and a couple of metal struts fitted across the base unit to provide support for the joint, but a butt joint should have been fitted over the carcase edge, not in the middle of a unit.
The supplier hasn't chased the debt, and the judge will pick up the implications of this, and he will realise that the worktops cost more than £900 to supply and install. Drewjak has been trying to resolve this for some time, so getting to court after 6 months is a natural progression, and still in his favour. And I can't see the fitter trying to counter claim for £2500, as it'd open a can of worms for him, and yes, definitely check for CCJ against him.
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your missing two important things:
CPR rules for expert evidence.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part35
and
consumer rights act 2015
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/19/enacted.
or in other words...
you say it's faulty and he needs to prove it wasn't, he's the one who'll be asking the courts permission to appoint an expert. there is no need to spend effort proving it was faulty when the fundamental elements of the claim are still unclear.
CPR rules for expert evidence.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part35
and
consumer rights act 2015
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/19/enacted.
or in other words...
you say it's faulty and he needs to prove it wasn't, he's the one who'll be asking the courts permission to appoint an expert. there is no need to spend effort proving it was faulty when the fundamental elements of the claim are still unclear.
D
Doggit
The rules for the small claims court aren't as onerous as for a normal court, so it doesn't come down to who gets to appoint an expert. In the small claims court, both parties just state their case, and the judge makes a determination. A letter from another stone worktop fitter would be viewed as a fairly reliable opinion rather than an expert, but would strengthen the applicants case; and is a much better way of supporting the claim. Without some supporting evidence to show the work was faulty, the judge could decide that the fitters claim that it had been stood on was a reasonable one, even though common sense would suggest that a stone worktop should be able to hold a dance band, and still survive if fitted properly.
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he needs a quote to put right, from a firm he has no connection with. that's it. He does not need to prove the item was faulty. He does need to prove he has a contract with the chap to supply, template and fit the worktop taking account of the kitchen design.
he needs to be able to answer any allegations that he was warned or told that there was a risk, with either the materials or the work.
He also needs to do s bit more work demonstrating the payment- for example receipt from the others he paid etc.
he needs to be able to answer any allegations that he was warned or told that there was a risk, with either the materials or the work.
He also needs to do s bit more work demonstrating the payment- for example receipt from the others he paid etc.
Thanks to everyone for commenting and giving their thoughts on this , and it seems a lot of good points have be risen as to what and what not to do, i personally don't think the bloke has a leg to stand on with the worktops failing and would be proved at fault .
The one thing im struggling with is how to lay out the initial statement to the courts and just how much detailed information i need to give to set the process off, if any one could give me some pointers as im struggling to find any info / templates on how best to do it.
with regards to sending him an initial letter , i have on numerous occasions corresponded with him via e mail trying to offer solutions to resolve this with out it going to court and made it clear to him that i will take court action if needed.
The one thing which may prove difficult is the payment , but i have paid plenty of people cash legitimately to prove thats how ive been paying people throughout this project so hopefully thats a plus side.
The one thing im struggling with is how to lay out the initial statement to the courts and just how much detailed information i need to give to set the process off, if any one could give me some pointers as im struggling to find any info / templates on how best to do it.
with regards to sending him an initial letter , i have on numerous occasions corresponded with him via e mail trying to offer solutions to resolve this with out it going to court and made it clear to him that i will take court action if needed.
The one thing which may prove difficult is the payment , but i have paid plenty of people cash legitimately to prove thats how ive been paying people throughout this project so hopefully thats a plus side.
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in your letters. i'm guessing you asked him to fix it? have you actually threatened to sue him and outlined the amount you will sue for, the consumer legislation that you'll be using and the additional fees he'll have to pay?
e.g.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim
e.g.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim
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looking at them pictures im with doggit the units have moved dropped for the work top to move that much without movement to unit
Yes i have outlined what i want from him in my last email, hes not interested he just said ill see you in court then, i get the impression this is something he has been through before, or he is just so thick skinned and determinedly stubborn.
with regards to the kitchen unit movement , the fact that work top was left basically hovering above the top of the unit once it was glued and then packed with silicone sealant to hide the gap means that it never had anything to rest on for support , the nearest piece of support it some 500mm away to the left , and for a piece of stone which probably weighs some 60 kg or more that is very inadequate.
i will get some more pics up to give you a better idea of what is going on.
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Installation of the units was your responsibility? If there was a 5mm gap at the top on one set of units, it doesn't sound like you installed the units properly.
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whenever slate, granit,marble worktops move 99% of time is down to the units ive seen 600mm over hangs with no movement or problems
and most fitters wont take responsibility for movement of uneven units
and most fitters wont take responsibility for movement of uneven units
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