DIY site or Not?

What's the difference between an electrician and God.?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





God does not think he is an electrician. :)

:LOL:
 
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Its a good question johnwestuk, one that I have often wondered about but havn't yet worked out the answer. Its a difficult one because it is impossible to gauge someone's capabilities from a few lines in a post. Obviously where electric and gas is concerned its probably illegal as one should be qualified but I certainly don't think its beyond a good DIYer's capability.

Personally, I tend to answer questions based on my own capabilities (that's all I know) so if it is something I would have a go at, I would recommend it and advise on the way that I would do it.

There are the genuinely helpful 'professionals' on this site then there are those that like to tell you how silly you are for not knowing. I suppose, like all forums, you have to just sift through it all and come to the best conclusion.
 
Its a good question johnwestuk, one that I have often wondered about but havn't yet worked out the answer. Its a difficult one because it is impossible to gauge someone's capabilities from a few lines in a post. Obviously where electric and gas is concerned its probably illegal as one should be qualified but I certainly don't think its beyond a good DIYer's capability.

Personally, I tend to answer questions based on my own capabilities (that's all I know) so if it is something I would have a go at, I would recommend it and advise on the way that I would do it.

There are the genuinely helpful 'professionals' on this site then there are those that like to tell you how silly you are for not knowing. I suppose, like all forums, you have to just sift through it all and come to the best conclusion.

Here is the interesting thing about electrics. I wanted to fully follow the letter of the law, so I got an electrician in whom I had heard had a good reputation for being honest and pragmatic. Based on his learnings the laws are actually being relaxed so that DIYers can do more, not less as it is now acceptable to do work in bathrooms (or is it kitchens, please check before taking my word for it), which was previously a big no.

There are however certain things that should be signed off and checked by either a professional or a council inspector. Frankly I found that it is relatively common to have to sign-off work as if the previous owner had undertaken changes without sign-offs these need checking and approving so that indemnities are not needed at the time of sale.

So honestly, I am not sure what all the big fuss is about. Find a electrician you trust, pay for his help to design the layout plan what you will do and what materials are needed and then do the work getting it signed off at the end.

Admittedly a rewire probably isnt for someone with no capability and an inability to do thorough research and analysis, but if you are willing to put in the time and energy to learn and do things properly then these things are not rocket science.
 
Most of the people who are told to 'get someone in' have not bothered their backside to do the basic research before asking questions and just want it all put on a plate for them. If you show some understanding and have specific questions not in the faq, the response is generally ok.
 
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So is it for the forum to educate this chappy //www.diynot.com/forums/general-diy/quick-question-re-kitchen-mixer-tap.404447/ or should he have come on here or done a bit of googling to ensure he had an idea what to do before he went to B&Q or wherever to by any old tap? You see I read that thread and think I can't be arse'd, if he cant be arse'd to do a little research beforehand. And he's not even posted it in the right forum section. His last comment about the earths is telling too.
 
So is it for the forum to educate this chappy //www.diynot.com/forums/general-diy/quick-question-re-kitchen-mixer-tap.404447/ or should he have come on here or done a bit of googling to ensure he had an idea what to do before he went to B&Q or wherever to by any old tap? You see I read that thread and think I can't be a**e'd, if he cant be a**e'd to do a little research beforehand. And he's not even posted it in the right forum section. His last comment about the earths is telling too.

Fair enough, but on the other hand he can be a**e'd to have a go. It's nobody's fault if they have a complete lack of experience. Sometimes it's not even clear what to ask.


Cheers
Richard
 
So is it for the forum to educate this chappy //www.diynot.com/forums/general-diy/quick-question-re-kitchen-mixer-tap.404447/ or should he have come on here or done a bit of googling to ensure he had an idea what to do before he went to B&Q or wherever to by any old tap? You see I read that thread and think I can't be a**e'd, if he cant be a**e'd to do a little research beforehand. And he's not even posted it in the right forum section. His last comment about the earths is telling too.

I reckon the useful thing would be to educate him, but instead of educating him in plumbing, give him the hints and clues he needs to search and find the basics of what to do.

In recollection, when I came on here and didn't get many results, at the time I thought I had done a lot of research and that I was being specific. In hind site, I didn't know what I didn't know, and the terminology I was using was incorrect leading to people not wanting to help.
 
...There are the genuinely helpful 'professionals' on this site then there are those that like to tell you how silly you are for not knowing...

Ironically, I've always found the professionals on the electrical forum to be extremely patient and helpful.
The guy who is the biggest pain in the butt is not a professional electrician but throws regs and condescension at the majority of people who post.

He had been off the electrical forum for a few months but I'm dismayed to see that he has returned to badger and belittle people :(
 
So honestly, I am not sure what all the big fuss is about. Find a electrician you trust, pay for his help to design the layout plan what you will do and what materials are needed and then do the work getting it signed off at the end.

An electrician will not sign off certain work. If he did he would be breaking the law.
 
So honestly, I am not sure what all the big fuss is about. Find a electrician you trust, pay for his help to design the layout plan what you will do and what materials are needed and then do the work getting it signed off at the end.
That can work, but rarely happens in reality.

There are many electrical jobs people of reasonable competence can do themselves.

However the electrical forum does attract a fair number of individuals who will never get the answers they are looking for. Examples include:

People who think they can do whatever electrical work they like and then get someone in to 'sign it off' later.
This will never happen, since it's likely most of these people won't ever contact anyone once the work is complete. It works, so why bother doing anything else?
Even if they do, their options are extremely limited. They can get someone in to inspect and test the installation - usually resulting in a list of defects the length of a toilet roll, and often due to the most fundamental errors in design and selection of materials.
Or they want someone to notify it to building control - can't be done, since electricians who belong to schemes can only notify their own work, and anyone else has to notify before the work is started, as with any other notifiable building work.

People who are unaware of any requirements to notify certain works, or to have the installation properly tested before it is connected to the supply.
Some of these initially want to do the right thing, but then when they discover that it will cost several hundred pounds to notify building control about the new £50 B&Q electric shower in the bathroom they decide to not bother and carry on regardless.

Those who are intent on doing things in a certain way, and want someone to say 'yes, carry on and do whatever you were going to do, it's all lovely and correct'
and then get all bent out of shape when they are told that their proposals are wrong and dangerous. Frequently they have already done a substantial part of the work, or already completed it.
Such individuals can't be helped, since they already know what they are doing is totally wrong, yet cannot accept this fact and will argue over it endlessly.

Those who tell blatant lies
These typically start out by saying someone else will be doing the work, it will all be connected up by some electrician later on, or the electrician who is rewiring their house has gone on holiday for 8 weeks and they just need to know what cable to buy for situation X, etc.
In all cases, the electrician does not exist, they are doing the work themselves, and would generally get better responses by saying so at the start.
Unfortunately once someone has provided a pack of lies, there is little incentive to believe anything they say afterwards.

Those who are convinced they can take on work far beyond their capabilities
Examples being people who clearly know nothing, yet want to install new circuits to several barns on a farm, wire up entire caravan sites or install half a mile of cable down a field.
Others are actually asking questions about some job they are doing for a paying customer - yet appear to have no understanding of the most basic and fundamental concepts.

Other causes of annoyance are people who ask questions which have already been asked thousands of times already - removing a ceiling rose and then not knowing which wire goes where in the new light is the usual one. If these people actually spent 10 seconds on a search, they would find all the answers they require.
Add to that trolls with dangerous situations that don't exist and persons at college who want to be spoon fed the answers to their homework, it's not surprising that some answers given may be less than helpful.
 
That's an excellent post, flameport - thanks. It neatly sums up the worst of the electrical forum (bearing in mind that there are still many excellent, useful threads, too).


For me, the two absolute worst are "those who are intent on doing things in a certain way..." and "those who tell blatant lies".

The former is pointless, in that they are simply looking for vindication ("You're correct! The regulations are pointless, and you're really smart for realising that you can just work around all the complex / expensive crap - have at it!").
The latter, though, are the people that the pro electricians often end up going with "he's going to do it anyway, so let's at least give him pertinent advice so that there is less chance of him killing himself of others".

Which, back to the original post, is the point of this forum - even if you don't agree with what someone is trying to do, at least try to offer your knowledge and experience such that you can help to make the situation better.
 

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