Do I need a metal chimney flu liner?

[1CANHELP]

[quote="coldshoulder";p="1752420"]About 13 years ago, our builders installed a proper chimney liner, which I think is made of terracotta - the "bricks" slot together and are approx 10-12" in diameter. We now want to install an oil fired Esse range cooker, which is an Esse Sovereign Select V40 (vapourising type, not pressure jet).

This flue liner will be ok if it conforms to BS4343 and:

1. Smooth throughout with no gaps for potential leaks.
2. Must be swept and a means of access for future sweeping/inspection.
3. When the appliance is installed, it will need, depending on the chimney it is going into condensate collection/discharge point.
4. the termination for vaporising appliances is of the utmost importance, both on the positive and negative pitches of the roof. This will affect the draught/combustion properties. Also, a draught stablilizer will need to be fitted.
5. A make up vent for ventillation should you have an extract fan in the room.


The manual says that the flue outlet is suitable for a 5" cast iron smoke pipe and that conventional chimney should be not less than 6" internal diameter.

Correct! the chimney is larger than required so no problem, the smoke pipe is just their as a transition/testing point onto the main chimney.

The engineer who is quoting to do the installation work says that we must have a 5" flue liner for the chimney, as he is concerned that the gases will not escape properly if the chimney is significantly wider. Can't get hold of anyone from Esse (again!) and really would appreciate input and opinions please.

Well, a flue liner doesn't have to be used as long as the flue liner in place conforms. The max size of the flue is irrelevant as flues in domestic properties are no larger than the one you've got. A proprietory terminal will need to be fitted to prevent ingress of water.

I suspect the original chap was just erring on the side of safety when suggesting a flue liner as he doesn't know the condition of the existing liner. To line it won't make much more of a difference to the cost because if you were not to line, you would need to have the chimney inspected, tested for leaks and signed off as satisfactory.....which will cost you money.

All in all use an OFTEC registered installer, make sure the fluing conforms with the regs and building regs, also, the hearth will need to conform and have a data plate attached.

This all needs to be notified to building control..

You should not ask serious questions about installations like this on a diy forum, most on here are short college course operatives that are here to glean knowledge themselves to supplement there lack off.

Luckily for you I had a little look and have pointed you in the correct direction!!!!

Now ring the original guy and appologise for doubting him, god! I'm glad I'm not working for you as I have met your type many times, think that all installers are out to rip people off.

Good luck!

An OFTEC, GAS SAFE, NICEIC and MSC Installer.

 

[1CANHELP]

I have since spoken with another engineer tonight and he told me that we don't need a chimney liner as this stove is giving out a constant heat, unlike the pressure jet types. The latter types can result in regular changes of heating and cooling in the flu and cause condensation to form and then a dribbling of water downwards (I think he also said that this can cause acidity problems).

This installer is talking b0lloks, get rid immediately!!

If in doubt call OFTEC themselves for advice for christ sake.

 

[MyEsse]

Hi Coldshoulder, I'm new here and was about to ask a similar question until I saw some of the pointless, illogical and or rude responses. I understand where you're coming from! I've had the same problem. You get quotes from two or three "experts" and they can't even agree with each other, so they can't all be right - right?! I don't want to wake up dead and broke either! (Tibbot was probably bullied at school so he takes it out on newcomers here - where it's safe? Even if its true there's no excuse for rudeness.)

Thankfully, Muggles and Joiner John have been very helpful and talk sense - thanks to all the polite helpful guys who at least try.

 

[Tibbot]

(Tibbot was probably bullied at school so he takes it out on newcomers here - where it's safe? Even if its true there's no excuse for rudeness.)

Clearly, by this post, the OP errs on the side of what he/she wants to hear first. So it's hardly rude to point this out.

As for your assumptions about me. It is you who's chosen the safe haven of the web for having a pop which means your bracketed line effectively descibes yourself.

.....Except in your case it was probably the sheep that were bullied.

 

[Tibbot]

I'm new here and was about to ask a similar question until I saw some of the pointless, illogical and or rude responses.

***** like you make me laugh. This site mainly helps DIYers who have a clue and some ability.

Some, who've no intention of helping themsleves, use it to ask inane questions hoping to trip others up or avoid spending money.

Yet expect strangers to afford them fare paying customer courtesy.

 

[1CANHELP]

[quote="coldshoulder";p="1752420"]About 13 years ago, our builders installed a proper chimney liner, which I think is made of terracotta - the "bricks" slot together and are approx 10-12" in diameter. We now want to install an oil fired Esse range cooker, which is an Esse Sovereign Select V40 (vapourising type, not pressure jet).

This flue liner will be ok if it conforms to BS4343 and:

1. Smooth throughout with no gaps for potential leaks.
2. Must be swept and a means of access for future sweeping/inspection.
3. When the appliance is installed, it will need, depending on the chimney it is going into condensate collection/discharge point.
4. the termination for vaporising appliances is of the utmost importance, both on the positive and negative pitches of the roof. This will affect the draught/combustion properties. Also, a draught stablilizer will need to be fitted.
5. A make up vent for ventillation should you have an extract fan in the room.


The manual says that the flue outlet is suitable for a 5" cast iron smoke pipe and that conventional chimney should be not less than 6" internal diameter.

Correct! the chimney is larger than required so no problem, the smoke pipe is just their as a transition/testing point onto the main chimney.

The engineer who is quoting to do the installation work says that we must have a 5" flue liner for the chimney, as he is concerned that the gases will not escape properly if the chimney is significantly wider. Can't get hold of anyone from Esse (again!) and really would appreciate input and opinions please.

Well, a flue liner doesn't have to be used as long as the flue liner in place conforms. The max size of the flue is irrelevant as flues in domestic properties are no larger than the one you've got. A proprietory terminal will need to be fitted to prevent ingress of water.

I suspect the original chap was just erring on the side of safety when suggesting a flue liner as he doesn't know the condition of the existing liner. To line it won't make much more of a difference to the cost because if you were not to line, you would need to have the chimney inspected, tested for leaks and signed off as satisfactory.....which will cost you money.

All in all use an OFTEC registered installer, make sure the fluing conforms with the regs and building regs, also, the hearth will need to conform and have a data plate attached.

This all needs to be notified to building control..

You should not ask serious questions about installations like this on a diy forum, most on here are short college course operatives that are here to glean knowledge themselves to supplement there lack off.

Luckily for you I had a little look and have pointed you in the correct direction!!!!

Now ring the original guy and appologise for doubting him, god! I'm glad I'm not working for you as I have met your type many times, think that all installers are out to rip people off.

Good luck!

An OFTEC, GAS SAFE, NICEIC and MSC Installer.

I/My business fits upwards of two oil installations a week as well as gas, electical and renewable systems, so I believe I am more qualified/experienced than most to comment on such an important matter.


An OFTEC, GAS SAFE, NICEIC and MSC Installer

 

[Norcon]

Your quality of work in each of those areas you're bragging about having qualifications in will obviously be sub standard.
Anyone can wave a piece of paper about and talk the talk.

 

[Norcon]

and speak to customers in a polite and proper manner at ALL times

They obviously didn't learn that from you.

 

[oilhead]

Casting aside all the insults etc. OFTEC requirements are invariably for a flue liner to be fitted. Even on boiler replacements, old liners are recommended to be remoplaced with new. As certification will be required, then if a liner is not fitted, and OFTEC requirements are essentially regulations, then the installation will not comply.
You do not know whether your existing chimney has integrity, also a vapourising burner is very sensitive to flue conditions and a liner is a way of making sure you get the correct conditions. Trygetting Aga to fit a cooker without a liner.