Do I need a new consumer unit or a full rewire?

[CraigyBoy29]

Just moved into a 4 bed house. We will over time need some adaptions for sockets and switches as it's a 1932 property which needs some modernisation throughout.

The consumer unit is in the bedroom which is unusual, but we have overhead power coming into the property.

Had a sparky round today as I wanted to spur off a double socket for another double behind wall mounted tv eventually. He said that the consumer unit would need changing to meet latest regs BUT would be better to rewire the whole house and start again?

What started as a cheap job - has left me this evening pondering £000's of work and mess.

Just wanted the thoughts of others or sparkies who can clarify so I can work out what to do next.

 

[bernardgreen]

The supply appears to be a TT supply which means the Earth for the installation is derived from a Ground Electrode which is most often a rod driven into the ground; This type of Earth requires an RCD in the CU. In other types of supply the Earth is derived from the incoming Neutral at the main fuse.

The RCD is a device which compares the current in the Live conductor with the current in the Neutral. These are normally the same but if there is any leakage of current they will be different and the RCD will detect this and trip and cut the power off. Very necessary when the leakage is through a person and possibly fatal.

 

[mattylad]

It may be "better" to "rewire the whole house" although better may be better for the sparky getting paid to do it.
You do not "need" the whole house rewiring but a new consumer unit is recommended.

 

[Murdochcat]

I would recommend you get a thorough EICR to establish the condition of the installation.

Then you’ll know if you are in for £600 or £8 - £10k

And the plastic part on top of the CU should be inside

 

[Taylortwocities]

The supply appears to be a TT supply which means the Earth for the installation is derived from a Ground Electrode which is most often a rod driven into the ground; This type of Earth requires an RCD in the CU. In other types of supply the Earth is derived from the incoming Neutral at the main fuse.

The RCD is a device which compares the current in the Live conductor with the current in the Neutral. These are normally the same but if there is any leakage of current they will be different and the RCD will detect this and trip and cut the power off. Very necessary when the leakage is through a person and possibly fatal.

And I can see no sign of any RCD in that consumer unit. That makes the whole thing very dangerous as none of the circuit breakers will trip in the event of an earth fault. That will make all the copper pipes connected to mains voltage. Touch a tap and you're a gonna.
An inspection would condemn the CU as C1 unsatisfactory (unsafe), and I'm surprised the "electrician" didn't make you aware of this in writing..

Rewire needed? maybe not, but the installation needs testing and inspecting and a decision can then be made.
EDIT The cables coming out of the bottom of the CU appear to be reasonably modern. The Southern Electric label says Plot 23 and a date, I guess of "2014" and the supply head is newish. That could be encouraging signs wrt the actual cabling. Doesnt stack up with a 1932 property...

I'm sorry that you have just moved in, bet you've done some decorating too? Best to stop that. The proper way to do house buying malarky is:-.

View house, make an offer subject to contract
Have electrician inspect and test installation and create a report with estimate for repairs
Go to vendor and negotiate a reduction in price
Buy the property
Have the house rewired (if needed). Add sockets & lights etc where YOU want them. new consumer unit. Also and other major works done - like plumbing etc
Maybe move in to part of the house, better not to, yet.
Finish electrics, etc.
Decorate, then move in.

 

[CraigyBoy29]

And I can see no sign of any RCD in that consumer unit. That makes the whole thing very dangerous as none of the circuit breakers will trip in the event of an earth fault. That will make all the copper pipes connected to mains voltage. Touch a tap and you're a gonna.
An inspection would condemn the CU as C1 unsatisfactory (unsafe), and I'm surprised the "electrician" didn't make you aware of this in writing..

Rewire needed? maybe not, but the installation needs testing and inspecting and a decision can then be made.
EDIT The cables coming out of the bottom of the CU appear to be reasonably modern. The Southern Electric label says Plot 23 and a date, I guess of "2014" and the supply head is newish. That could be encouraging signs wrt the actual cabling. Doesnt stack up with a 1932 property...

I'm sorry that you have just moved in, bet you've done some decorating too? Best to stop that. The proper way to do house buying malarky is:-.

View house, make an offer subject to contract
Have electrician inspect and test installation and create a report with estimate for repairs
Go to vendor and negotiate a reduction in price
Buy the property
Have the house rewired (if needed). Add sockets & lights etc where YOU want them. new consumer unit. Also and other major works done - like plumbing etc
Maybe move in to part of the house, better not to, yet.
Finish electrics, etc.
Decorate, then move in.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply - We have put any decorating on hold for now until the CU is sorted and a decision made. I will take the advice from @Murdochcat and get a EICR done ASAP so we can move forward but do agree that it would be condemned given no RCD. So a new CU is must.

We have moved in but can live in parts of the house due the size which is a bonus when works are carried out.

I do agree the cables look newish and the house was extended in 2001 so this might tally. The house was built in 1932 although doesn't imply the electrics are that old but lack of information from the legal pack, doesn't give many details from when we bought it. Maybe a schoolboy error that will be costly to rectify.

 

[ebee]

Yes have an EICR (formerly call a Periodic Inspection Report) so you have an idea of the condition of the existing installation
That way you will know how to plan for what you have at this moment in time and what you might need for any future changes.
Sometimes when customers asked me for extra sockets, sockets/lights moving et etc I have advised them that starting from scratch would be a better option ( Rewire completely or pretty much so) sometimes just a few additions/alterations is all that is needed.

 

[Jurassicspark]

The supply appears to be a TT supply which means the Earth for the installation is derived from a Ground Electrode which is most often a rod driven into the ground;

Who knows?

It might not have an electrode; instead, it may be using the water pipe as an earth, or even worse, it might not even have an earth connection at all

 

[Taylortwocities]

Who knows?

It might not have an electrode; instead, it may be using the water pipe as an earth, or even worse, it might not even have an earth connection at all

But Bernard correctly said ".....which is most often a rod driven into the ground"

It is not permitted to us a water pipe as an earth source anymore.

 

[Murdochcat]

It is not permitted to us a water pipe as an earth source anymore.

Except where you have a private water supply IIRC

 

[Murdochcat]

For anybody reading this thread having a decent EICR prior to purchase is a good idea as you might be able to get a discount off the cost if the EICR shows up expensive issues

 

[plugwash]

An inspection would condemn the CU as C1 unsatisfactory (unsafe)

At least from the guidance I've seen that would "only" be a C2 (potentially dangerous) not a C1 (immediately dangerous) since it would need something to actually fail before someone got a shock.

Still I agree it should be sorted ASAP. If you were a landlord in England you would be legally required to sort it.

The Southern Electric label says Plot 23 and a date, I guess of "2014" and the supply head is newish. That could be encouraging signs wrt the actual cabling. Doesnt stack up with a 1932 property...

I agree it says 2014 but that only indicates that Southern electric visited the property for some reason on that date. The installation is clearly older.

The meter tails are red/black which indicates pre 2006. BS 3871 was withdrawn in 1994, replaced with a harmonised EN standard. The white sheath on the cables indicates either pre 2006 or LSF sheath. I strongly suspect the former.

would be better to rewire the whole house and start again?

IMO in general there are multiple reasons one might choose to rewire. Unfortunately it's not possible to tell from your picture which if-any of them apply to your installation.

1. The wiring is degraded and needs replacing. Old rubber wiring is generally considered to be in need of replacement. Plastic insulation tends to last much longer, though there have been some bad batches and any wiring can be degraded through persistent overloading. The wiring leaving your CU looks fine on first glance, but it's not unheard of for old rubber wiring to be hidden, either as a result of normal works on the installation, or as a result of works deliberately intended to hide said rubber wiring.
2. The installation is full of horrible bodges. You can deal with the bodges individually of course, but there comes a point at which it's easier to start again.
3. What you want differs massively from what you have. As with the bodges you can make additions/modifications incrementally up to a point, but there comes a point when it's more sensible to start again.
4. The lighting wiring lacks an earth, this often goes hand in hand with old rubber wiring, but there was a window of time when plastic-insulated wire without earthing was installed.

And some installations of course are suffering from a combination of issues, the installation at my current place was horrible bodges built on top of old rubbler. It got an almost-complete rewire (the bathroom circuits were kept, as they had been installed relatively recently and there was nothing wrong with them).

 

[ericmark]

You have had some good answers, my parents house built 1954, it did have a good earth, as an earth line fault ruptured the fuse when I was a lad. But when I came to test, no earth.

I came to add a RCD, and it would not hold in, intermittent fault some where, tests with an insulation tester showed OK, but it would not hold in.

On looking further found no earth on lights (was not required until 1966) and in some areas, crumbling rubber insulated wiring.

So to fit RCD's it needed rewiring first, this was in the end done, but at that time, not required, so could revert back, now the electrician would not be allowed to remove RCD protection once fitted.

I did take a chance with this house and fit an all RCBO consumer unit, and the one fault was soon found, however it is a huge chance to take, and can understand why an electrician would not want to change a CU without rewiring.