Do you think Labour will win the next election ?

[Notch7]

Mate if you think this is bad you ain't seen nothing ! I think it can get a whole lot worse !

Why?

The reason this country is in a mess is because of 40 years of neoliberal free market corruption bleeding this country and its people dry…..and it’s got a whole lot worse in the last 14 years.

Labour can’t perform miracles but they can at least see an end to right populists governing by lies and corruption

 

[Andydevon]

Like Tony Blare and New Labour you mean?

 

[ajohn]

In one respect, the UK tax system already looks top heavy. The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues: a higher share than at any time in past twenty years. In other words, three in every ten pounds that the government receives in income tax is paid by just over 300,000 individuals. Not surprisingly, this statistic is often quoted by those who argue that the rich cannot be asked to pay more. But it doesn’t tell the whole story.
Using anonymised data from personal tax returns, we show that in 2015-16 the average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent: the same as someone earning £100,000. But one in four of these paid 45 per cent – close to the top rate – whilst another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent—the same as someone earning £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together.
One option for a government looking to raise tax revenues would be to implement a new "alternative minimum tax". This would put a floor on the lowest tax rates. If set at 35 per cent on taxable income and gains for all those with over £100,000 per year, our research indicates that this tax could raise £11 billion per year.
We published the final Wealth Tax Commission report in December 2020, with the recommendation that, if the government chooses to raise taxes as part of its response to the COVID-19 crisis, it should implement a one-off wealth tax in preference to increasing taxes on work or spending. A one-off wealth tax on millionaire couples paid at one per cent a year for five years, we found, would raise £260 billion.

How much tax do the rich really pay? | LSE Research

Read about research from LSE’s Andy Summers and Arun Advani on taxation, how much the rich pay and whether the UK should have a wealth tax?

www.lse.ac.uk

Weatth tax can have problems going on where it's been tried. The interesting aspect is where does the other 70% come from.

Some other countries use a more progressive system on income tax. eg See what % people earning > $250000 pay of the total take.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/US_Share_of_Income_Taxes_Paid_by_Income_Level_v1.png

Effectively 2.7% of the population.

 

[ajohn]

Like Tony Blare and New Labour you mean?

Evidence of what ever point you are trying to make.

 

[JohnD]

I see Notters saying "yes" are at about 42%

Which is about in line with national polls.

Though about 20% of the rest of the country says they will vote Tory. Not so many showing here.

 

[Murdochcat]

We’ve had a decade of austerity in which the low paid saw their wages stagnate whilst the highest earner and the richest people saw their incomes and investments soar in value.

I think blaming austerity is rather short sighted. Tax credits and UC handouts disencentivise people from getting better paid jobs or working longer hours

Why work more and not benefit is how a lot of this group think.

So social mobility stalled and continues to stall

40 years ago people changed jobs, got 2nd jobs etc to earn more.

Something has to change but giving tax free cash out like the UK does is not helping

 

[Mottie]

I think that’s already arrived

If Labour get in, it ain't even started!

 

[Andydevon]

If you look at Starmer and his approach plus the effect of Angela (two homes) Raynor its quite clear they are just politicians with different colour rosettes. The effect will be markedly similar especially with influence of TB behind the scenes.

 

[JohnD]

Some people think that high pay makes rich people work harder, and low pay makes poor people work harder.

No evidence supports either opinion.

 

[ajohn]

If Labour get in, it ain't even started!

What will happen?

 

[ajohn]

Tax credits and UC handouts disencentivise people from getting better paid jobs or working longer hours

Why do the 2 parties do it then? Edit - should mention the US do it as well and others.

 

[JohnD]

Why do the 2 parties do it then? Edit - should mention the US do it as well and others.

To avoid the inconvenience of starving people dying in the street, or stealing bread.

Benefits to the low paid are actually a subsidy to the employer, saving them the expense of paying decent wages.

 

[Notch7]

Tax credits and UC handouts disencentivise people from getting better paid jobs or working longer hours

Complete bolox, that’s got fa to do with the rise in poverty and rise in wealth inequality.



It’s just a typical right wing lazy argument

There are millions of people who are suffering in work food and fuel poverty

And smug people like you say: “ooh people just need to work harder”


Luckily I can help you learn some facts, since you aren’t capable of research:

Britain and the US are poor societies with some very rich people

When it comes to average household incomes, the UK may soon need to ask migrant labourers to take a pay cut

www.ft.com

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-18/living-standards-in-uk-have-lagged-behind-those-in-germany-and-us-for-years

Average UK families £8,800 a year worse off than in comparable countries - Nuffield Foundation

Britain’s toxic combination of low growth and high inequality has left it trailing behind...

www.nuffieldfoundation.org

Wealth of evidence? What we know about 'asset effects'

In this blog, the second of four, Tom Clark steps back from public policy questions and looks at the latest information about how wealth is shared – and why it matters.

www.jrf.org.uk

 

[ajohn]

I think blaming austerity is rather short sighted.

There is a view that it's effects were far to fast. Lower reductions means longer to achieve the fix that is needed. Simply put it depends on debt levels and the rate they are increasing at and even the reasons.

The main problem really is that we are still in it. While inflation, pay rises and fiscal policy has increased the tax take related to GDP it still does not seem to be enough. Behind this is a series of cut backs and not enough done about inflation since they were applied.

LOL Worse still maybe for us is that the whole area is based on forecasts 5 years ahead related to debt levels / GDP. One criticism of our current path is that there is ~£6b excess to account for errors. Sounds a lot but it relates to ~£1t. The other number that has been mentioned is £11b. Still not a lot of scope for errors. Now?

Has Tory ideology made things worse than they need to be? Pass don't know but it could given their general aims.

 

[johnny2007]

Makes no difference.
They're all out to screw us over.