I would have thought that was a classic case of a radial? if all the load is going to one point. i.e the switch panel? What is the point of running 2 2.5mm cables in? just use 1 larger cable!
Double socket off a 13a fused switch?
- Thread starter preecy
- Start date
I would have thought that was a classic case of a radial? if all the load is going to one point. i.e the switch panel? What is the point of running 2 2.5mm cables in? just use 1 larger cable!
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I didn't want the OP to do some circuit re-configuration or all a new circuit, and still end up with a double on the end of it supplying a WC & TD !
Thankfully I was just a simple case of unplugging one plug and plugging it into a different socket.
But as with many blue forums, the op fixed the issue on page 1 and here were are on page 3 for some reason
Yes, I agree. I wasn't criticising yopu - merely pointing out to EFLI the reason why the scope of the discussion had broadened.
You seemingly regard that as a 'negative', but my personal view and experience is that it is the 'post-mortem' and discussion which follows diagnosis and succesful rectification of a problem which is often the most valuable learning experience.But as with many blue forums, the op fixed the issue on page 1 and here were are on page 3 for some reason
Kind Regards, John
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I agree with you on the problem of overloaded sockets but when it is on the end of a cable which may very well need to be derated (as BAS says could be as low as 13.5A) and therefore easily overloaded.
I absolutely agree they should not but these appliances are available from many retail outlets with moulded 13A plugs already fitted.
Please explain where context of my statement is wrong.
BAS is obviously right in saying that the CCC of 2.5mm² cable could be as low as 13.5A. However, I have always assumed that the requirement of the reg about ring finals that they must be wired in cable with a CCC (as installed) of at least 20A applied to spurs just as much as to the ring itself. It would surely make no sense for the regs to allow a cable with a CCC of 13.5A to be protected by a 30/32A OPD ( the theoretical current carried could be 26A, or at least 20A)?
Kind Regards, John
Yes, but that applies to any cable.
I am having trouble following your logic and even your train of thought. You cannot condemn something - spurs - because some people might install them incorrectly.
You cannot say a (usual ring) spur should not have a double socket at the end because the cable might be surrounded in thermal insulation. Don't install it like that.
You would need 16mm² for an electric shower if the cable runs through thermal insulation. The remedy is not to ban electric showers but to not run the cable through thermal insulation.
I do not know where these appliances are but that is obviously not right. Perhaps you should contact Trading Standards.
Having identified so many incorrectly installed spurs, either at the point of installation, or later modification, I feel they are troublesome, far more so that the ring itself or other circuit types. On that basis alone I dislike spurs. As I've mentioned earlier, it would not occur to me to install a 2.5mm radial using a 32A OCD so on that basis it strikes me as flawed to install a 2.5mm spur which is effectively the same as a radial.
I certainly have on a number of occasions
The 3.0 and 3.1 kW ratings Sunray quotes for the dryer and WM were probably both quoted at 240V, both of which translate to under 13A at 240V, and appreciably under 13A at teh 230V we would use for calculations. On that basis, it wiould seem acceptable to fit the appliances with 13A plugs.
The problem arises because of Sunray's measured current of 14.8A for the dryer and 'calculated' 15.4A for the WM. I would be interested to know how he measured the dryer current, and I'm more mystified about how he 'calculated' the WM current.
I suppose one possibility in the case of the dryer is that the kW rating is presumably true kW, so if the PF were appreciably less than unity, the measured current would be higher than one would expect by assuming that the rating was VA. However, given that the lion's share of a dryer's load is resistive, I would be a little surprised if the PF were particularly low.
Kind Regards, John
Of course not, but you could if it only feeds one socket (single or double) because -
It is protected by one or two 13A fuses which is compliant with the regulations.
If two 13A appliances in one double socket is inadvisable then two single sockets would be alright except it is not allowed by an informative Appendix 15.
I suppose it should be said that 'an informative Appendix' cannot really "not allow" anything - but one certainly would not know that on the basis of what so many people seem to think, say and write!
Furthermore, given that it is apparent that some people do experience the 'overheating double socket' issue, what the informative Appendix is trying to "not allow" would seem to be the safer of the options!
Kind Regards, John
I agree
I used a clamp, either built into the meter or a separate clamp connected to the meter.
My calculations are based on simple Ohms law formulae: using R=V²/W, 220²/3000=16.133Ω then I=V/R, 242/16.133=15A. As my clamp measured 14.8A and I have experienced similar sort of specs and measurements on a number of occasions, plus both clamps are occasionally checked against calibrated kit I feel quite confident my calculations are realistic or alternatively a poor PF.
On that basis assuming that both machines rating plates have the same accuracy, ditto for 3.1KW: 220²/3100=15.61Ω, 242/15.61=15.5A
From my measurement and calculations I believe they have been quoted at 220V as German kit used to be.
That's certainly correct if one assumes that the 3 kW relates to 220V. However ...
I have to agree that that assumption is are consistent with your measurement. However, maybe Germans are different but, as a rule, when a manufacturer (of any nationality) state a voltage range (220V-240V in your case), they seem to nearly always quote the power at the upper end of that voltage range - one suspects to make the appliance 'sound more powerful' than it actually will be for a good few users.
The other thing I would add (e.g. in relation to the acceptability of fitting 13A plugs to the appliances) that, whatever we may think of it, design is all undertaken on the basis of nominal voltage (even when, as in the UK, the great majority of people have supplies of appreciably higher than nominal voltage). Hence, if an appliance would draw no more than 13A at 230V, it is seemingly 'acceptable' for it to have a 13A plug, regardless of what actual supply voltage it is used at.
Kind Regards, John
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