Downlights - what can we install in the ceiling?

[riveralt]

If you are replacing the current lighting units then there are no part p notification issues

though you still must comply with part p - but if you are changing the circuits characteristics then you need to follow BS7671 and notify you LABC

[1) Part P and notification are unrelated.

2) If he replaces a light in a kitchen or bathroom with a downlight then that is not notifiable. If he replaces a light with multiple downlights then he's adding lights, which is notifiable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is no such thing as "Part P notification issues".

Part P is separate part of the Building Regulations from Part 3.

Work which has to comply with Part P is not necessarily notifiable.

Electrical work which is not notifiable still has to comply with Part P.

 

[Steve]

Ban, I've found another guy who hates downlights. You now have a celebrity endorsement! Kevin McCloud! He talks in brief about how bad they are in his book, Principles Of Home.

 

[RF Lighting]

He's wrong.

 

[shabbaranks]

You say downlights dont provide enough light... One thing I have found about this site since signing up is that a lot of assumptions are made. Ive been to many houses where people have downlights and I can see perfectly. They have all been different shapes and sizes as with all kitchens are. So how can you say downlights dont provide enough light? You cant - simples.

In the space we have Im sure we have enough common sense between us to make sure we're not walking around bumping into things and chopping our fingers off, and have enough light - it doesnt really take a genious does it?

I could go on and on ranting, but I wont. As I have said before, productive answers please...

 

[RF Lighting]

B-A-S is right to a point. A downlighter is not good at lighting up a room.

The point he fails to acknowledge is that several properly positioned down lighters do an eccellent job of lighting a room.

I've fitted hundreds of rooms with downlighters, and you can see very well in all of them.

Yes they do use a lot more electricity than some other types of lighting, but as long as you accept this, then there is nothing wrong with the use of downlighters providing the layout is properly designed, and they are properly installed.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ive been to many houses where people have downlights and I can see perfectly.

But how many downlights?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

B-A-S is right to a point. A downlighter is not good at lighting up a room.

The point he fails to acknowledge is that several properly positioned down lighters do an eccellent job of lighting a room.

Yes - several.

Far from failing to acknowledge that, that is precisely why I object to them.

I've fitted hundreds of rooms with downlighters, and you can see very well in all of them.

And how many lights would you have used if you'd used ones fit for purpose instead of having to mask the use of ones not fit for purpose by installing "several" per room?

Yes they do use a lot more electricity than some other types of lighting,

Precisely - and that is why they are so offensive.

but as long as you accept this, then there is nothing wrong with the use of downlighters providing the layout is properly designed, and they are properly installed.

That's like saying that as long as you accept the physical and emotional damage done to children there's nothing wrong with paedophilia!

It is the inefficiency of that type of lighting which is unacceptable!

 

[bernardgreen]

But you read other posts and look at other countries, if it was a safety concern wouldnt we drop the voltage like they have in the states?

In terms of fires created by electrical systems a lower voltage increases the risk as the currents are increased and it is the current that heats the wire or defective joint


The United States never "dropped" their voltage. It started out as 120 volts or lower in some areas. Now modern heavy load domestic equipment in the US often operates at 230 volts by being between two 120 volt phases.

 

[shabbaranks]

When you say about the cost to run these downlights - I thought the LED ones were cheap to run? Granted you would have more lights per room but still the overall running cost was still less? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Aragorn84]

Sure, they use less, but when you consider a single 20 or 23w CFL would likely light most kitchens adequately, vs 6 or 8 or more downlighters for the same area. I'd imagine you probably need 6w LED units to adequately light a kitchen, meaning the LED's will still use more power, not to mention are many times more expensive.

I can understand the use of LED's to replace the bulbs in downlighters that are already fitted, infact i've just baught some for my own kitchen, because its a rented house and i cant really do anything about the choice of lighting. But as a new installation, designing them into a room is quite simply retarded.

It amuses me no end that we have all these building regulations forcing the installation of stupid pendant fittings to ensure they can only be used with low energy lamps, and we've banned standard GLS incandescent lamps, yet the most inefficient lighting typically used in modern homes is completely ignored.

 

[radweld]

Far from failing to acknowledge that, that is precisely why I object to them.

Yes they do use a lot more electricity than some other types of lighting,

Precisely - and that is why they are so offensive.

It is the inefficiency of that type of lighting which is unacceptable!

Does this mean you consider down-lighters fitted with LED bulbs considerably less offensive than halogen downlighters? And also less offensive than a central pendant fitted with an incandescent bulb? This has not been apparent in your numerous comments on this subject.

I can understand the use of LED's to replace the bulbs in downlighters that are already fitted, infact i've just baught some for my own kitchen, because its a rented house and i cant really do anything about the choice of lighting. But as a new installation, designing them into a room is quite simply retarded.

Many people - myself included - consider the quality and controllability of light from LED sources to be superior to CFL. More efficient technologies may exist, but I think it's harsh to describe somebody as 'retarded' for choosing to illuminate a kitchen for <50W.