Drilling into bare, uneven 140-year-old red bricks.

[LadyHomeLover]

I'm putting two shelves into the cupboard under the stairs to hold DIY stuff.

Marked the wall four times with a felt tip pen through the screw holes in the shelf brackets.

Soon as I applied my hammer drill to make the first hole, the drill "jumped" an inch away from the mark without my being able to stop it, and the brickwork just crumbled and raggedy lumps tumbled down to the floor.

Obviously the four holes have to be exactly where I need them to be, to line up exactly with the holes in the shelf brackets.

I stopped after that one hole, to ask advice.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

 

[foxhole]

Start drill without hammer action , prevents in jumping around, once hole started you can switch on the hammer action.
If brickwork is flaky start with 5mm bit and move to required size once you have position correct.

 

[JohnD]

old red bricks, especially the ones used indoors (where they will be plastered and never seen) vary in quality and hardness, even in the same wall. They might be soft enough to drill without hammer (in which case keep withdrawing the drill to clear the dust or it might jam) and the hole is less likely to break jagged.

If you make a crater in the wall it will not hold a screw.

Most important thing is to drill the hole deep enough to insert the screw at least an inch. Tap the plasplug right in, and sink it slightly below the surface. If the hole is very ragged and the plug rotates when you try to screw into it, pull the plug out, clean out all dust, and inject a little no-more-nail or similar deep into the hole (put the nozzle right in). Push the plug in and leave it overnight. The next day it will be held firm and will not rotate or come loose.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Cheers Foxhole. So, make a skinny pilot hole first. I can try that!

Oooh JohnD thank you for that clever tip about using "no more nails" with a loose plug.

A man friend rang me and I mentioned this problem to him and he reckons I will not be able to attach brackets to a bare brick wall at all. He reckons I should batten the wall vertically and then attach the brackets to the battens. That sounds like a final resort if all else fails!

Thanks!

 

[JohnD]

this slotted shelf system is very good. It used to be "Spur" brand but I believe they went bust. You can fit the brackets at any height you want. Something similar is used by shopfitters. The channel is screwed vertically to the wall, and brackets slot in. The top screw is the most important one, because of the leverage on the brackets.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/security-ironmongery/twin-slot-systems/cat831528

Get the twin-slotted steel one, which is very strong. There are inferior aluminium copies.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

this slotted shelf system is very good.

I have fitted that exact system in my office. It was easy: the walls are plastered

My friend meant simply screw on upright pieces of wood leftover from a previous project, and screw the existing brackets to this. Cost = zero.

 

[JohnD]

you would still need strong screws into the wall for the battens.

and then some more strong screws for the brackets.

More work

More screws.

BTW drill the top hole first, and screw the bracket into that, then mark and drill your subsequent holes.

Otherwise, if the first hole is out of place, all the other marks will be wrong.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

JohnD. Indeed, and that is true whether I buy the slot system or my existing wooden battens.

Maybe I should have the damned wall plastered!

 

[JohnD]

why do you want it plastered?

the screws have to go into the bricks

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Because I don't have this trouble with my walls which are plaster over the same red old bricks. Rather an extreme fix though.

Now I am wondering if a batten would stick to the bricks if I used no more nails.

Edited to add: if the wall was plastered then (I believe that) the layer of plaster keeps the drill bit straight as it's going into the brick behind it.

I was going to give the "pilot hole method" a try but now a neighbour is sending her husband round to drill these four holes for me.

#defeated by a wall

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Now I am wondering if a batten would stick to the bricks if I used no more nails.

Probably, but it won't carry any weight! The batten "trick" was traditionally used to overcome uneven walls as well as allowing you to spread the load out and deal with soft areas. Spur type shelving (and BTW John the firm is still in existence AFAIK) is useful for that as well, but still requires a wall which is reasonably plumb, otherwise you start having to pack the rail off the wall so that the brackets on adjacent rails are level. The same is true of battens - they must be coplanar to work

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Neighbour failed to show up or ring me, and now his wife said he's taken another job on for today, without even ringing me or anything.

So it's back to me to do the job

 

[LadyHomeLover]

I'VE DONE ONE! Well, sort of. There are actually 3 holes in each bracket. I have managed to get 2 fairly tight, secure fixings, 2 reasonable fixings and 2 utterly useless ones. But when I try to pull the shelf away from the wall, it does not move, so my bodge-work has been a reasonable success.

I used Foxhole's idea of a pilot hole, then a bigger hole.

After lunch I will have a go at the other one!

 

[JohnD]

Buy some Jaffa cakes.

 

[LadyHomeLover]

Buy some Jaffa cakes.

Hobnobs rule.