Driving without power steering working?

[Agile]

My old "P" reg Peugeot 406 has developed a leak in the power steering "somewhere".

There is a length of tube at the front obviously designed for cooling the fluid but all this tube is covered in fluid and so I cannot see where the actual leak is.

Just happens to be one of my worst weeks when boiler repair people are calling me all the time!

What damage could it do to carefully drive it without the power assist working?

Tony

 

[AlanE]

Muscle strain Tony?

Seriously with no power steering would it in fact be legal?

With regards damage with insufficient fluid what would be left to lubricate the pump?

 

[Burnerman]

As per Alan......the car wouldn't be safe to drive, and you could guarantee the steering rack would suffer, as well as the pump.
It's pretty common for the cooling tube to rust through, I'm afraid.
John

 

[Avocet]

It would feel pretty horrid to drive. Most power steering systems (and I guess the 406 won't be any different) have a little thin torsion bar in the valve block controlling the direction and volume of fluid. That's actually the mechanical link between the steering wheel and the road wheels. It works by twisting as you turn the wheel. The harder you turn it, the more it twists. The more it twists, the more the valve ports are uncovered and more fluid is let trough. If you have no fluid in there, the bar will just twist to the greatest extent possible, so the steering will feel really vague. There are metal stops inside the valve block so that it "catches" the movement should the torsion bar snap (otherwise you would lose all steering completely)! For a few hundred miles, other than feeling awful to drive, it probably wouldn't do the valve block any real harm, but remember that you'd also be putting a much higher load on the pinion and steering shaft (between the column and the rack) than they were designed to take. If you break either, you'll lose your steering completely!

A more immediate problem would be the pump. If the engine is driving the pump with no fluid in it, you might destroy the pump. If you can drop the belt off (without losing other ancillaries) that might be an option.

Basically, the car will have been designed to run for a short distance with no assistance after (say) a power steering pump belt snaps, but it's risky doing it for longer. Also, there might be insurance implications if involved in an accident.

 

[Agile]

I can drive the car reasonably well when its the only car on the road and I can turn gently. But in heavy traffic I could envisage an idiot swerving into my path and being unable to respond quickly.

John, do you know how these can be replaced?

The joints seem to be factory pressed at the junction between the cooling metal tube and the flexibles.

Costs ?

The mechanic who I take bad problems to usually responds to my text within seconds but this time he has not replied at all. Maybe ill or abroad?

He runs a garage with about 3-5 staff and unusual for him to not respond. Even though I tell him to take his time he usually fixes things the next day at the latest!

Tony

 

[Burnerman]

Ebay or Partsfinder, Tony......there won't be much change from a ton for this one new.
You are correct, the flexibles are crimped onto the solid pipe with a ferrule....not the easiest things to repair.
I've never had leaks from the joins personally, only at the curves where the metal is probably thinner.
I don't think the radiator has to come out to sort this, but I'm not absolutely sure.
John

 

[AlanE]

I can drive the car reasonably well when its the only car on the road and I can turn gently. But in heavy traffic I could envisage an idiot swerving into my path and being unable to respond quickly.

Just hope you don't bump into an 'idiot' as your vehicle is unlawful on the road and as such insurance might be invalid! Sorry but driving it make you the idiot in my book.

Power steering MOT failures

1.
Power steering fluid level below the minimum indication where this is shown.

2.
A fluid pipe or hose excessively damaged, corroded or fouling on other parts of the vehicle.

3.
a.
Power steering malfunctioning or inoperative or evidence that power assistance has been removed or disconnected when it is known that power steering is standard on the vehicle

b.
a leak in the system showing that a component, joint or seal has failed

 

[Agile]

Ebay or Partsfinder, Tony......there won't be much change from a ton for this one new.
You are correct, the flexibles are crimped onto the solid pipe with a ferrule....not the easiest things to repair.
I've never had leaks from the joins personally, only at the curves where the metal is probably thinner.
I don't think the radiator has to come out to sort this, but I'm not absolutely sure.
John

Are you saying that the metal and flexables come as one and have to be changed as one?

Otherwise the car is not bad and drives well so would be worth £200 or so to fix it.

Any suggestions on what to call it to search for?

In the meantime I have bought another cheap 206 to keep me moving. That's a nuisance, mechanically its very good indeed and with the 1.4 HDI very economic but the body is very ropey and questionably worth keeping as it needs a new passenger door.

Tony

 

[AlanE]

Tony post up, PM or email, vehicle vin number and I will try and download exploded diagram of parts needed.

 

[Agile]

I have found the diagram on line as well as some useful suggestions.

It is claimed that this zigzag pipe is on the low pressure return to the reservoir and so a hose and jubilee can be used to repair it.

But my first problem is to find out exactly where it is leaking which is not at all easy as its all covered with fluid all over the pipe and everything nearby too!

Not helped by my having to do it outside in cold and often wet conditions.

But at least if true that makes it far less of a problem perhaps so i will be keeping it at home for the moment rather than taking it to the mechanic ( when he replies ).

Thanks

Tony

 

[AlanE]

Got access to official Peugeot parts listing and there seems to be different ones depending on production date and engine hence asking for VIN.

Would have thought it would be fairly easy to fabricate replacement from steel tube.

 

[Burnerman]

I've used 10mm copper before, with an olive soldered on for jubilee clip security....that was on a ssang yong something or other ......a poor mans Land Rover. It was a 4x4 anyway, Mercedes Diesel engine.
John

 

[Avocet]

Not familiar with that particular car, but they're usually long and wiggly to act as a fluid cooler. That means they're located were there is good airflow, so they're vulnerable to stone chips and salt. Many corrode (I know it's a problem on Nissan X-Trails of a certain age)! In the UK, and assuming you're not doing loads of big steering movements at low speed (like a taxi driver or delivery driver), I wouldn't mind betting you could just replace with straight pipe. The fluid's unlikely to get too hot. As you say, it's the low pressure side, so as long as the hose is oil resistant, "Jubilee" clips should be fine.

 

[Peter.N.]

I had to drive mine back from Axminster with no power steering this morning, the belt had come off, for no obvious reason, the belt is not worn or damaged neither are the tensioner or idler.

Makes the steering heavy though, they weren't as heavy as that before they had power steering. I had to avoid making sharp turns.

Peter

 

[Burnerman]

I had to drive mine back from Axminster with no power steering this morning, the belt had come off, for no obvious reason, the belt is not worn or damaged neither are the tensioner or idler.

Makes the steering heavy though, they weren't as heavy as that before they had power steering. I had to avoid making sharp turns.

Peter

What's going on there Peter? Tensioner out of line, maybe.....had one or two like that?
John