Dual master/slave outside lights

[klaus_k]

Hi, I currently have two outside lights, each with a PiR sensor. They have developed a fault so that the sensor only works some of the time. At the moment, one is master to the other slave (i.e. one sensor turns on both lights). From this, I assume there must be a spare 'hot' wire between the two, to carry the sensor-switched power. I would like to replace these and reconfigure it so that I have two masters - i.e. either sensor can light both lights. Can somebody please advise on the wiring configuration? Ideally with a picture/diagram. Thanks KK.

 

[SUNRAY]

3 CORE AND EARTH between the two lamps which may very well already be connected as shown above.

I've also added the wiring if you have or require an override switch in purple. Ignore that part if you don't have it.

I don't know the colour of your wiring, I guess you can interpret that or we'll help.

 

[klaus_k]

That is fantastic - thanks. And yes, I do have an override switch (indoors) that allows me to 'force' the lights on. Such a clear diagram too - you are a hero!

 

[ericmark]

A PIR needs power to work, some pass current through the bulb, some use batteries, and some have a neutral. Also they need to connect and some are wireless, and some use wires. Also controls, they can have LUX, Time, and Range, but some don't have all functions, and use blanking bits to stop activation from selected areas.

In the main stand alone PIR's can be connected in parallel so either will activate both lamps, but some built in types can't run in parallel. It depends on which you select.

In doors switches also vary, with smart switches they can often be programmed with dusk and dawn, but again they need power, three methods to power them, through the bulb, using a neutral, or a battery. The through the bulb type can't power a PIR as once PIR switches off they loose power. I use Tapo (TP-Link) which have batteries so can be programmed to turn on at dusk and off a 11 pm so cats etc don't set them off in middle of night.

I do find dawn is a problem, as switch on at 6 am and off at dawn clearly will not work when dawn is before 6 am. I do have one PIR lamp also switched with smart switch, but in the main have given up with PIR's as too easy set off by cats or other wild life, and would switch off at most inopportune moments. Hands full of shopping and can't even see where to put shopping down.

But I have 8 outside lights, 6 with smart controls, so I switch them on with phone and off with voice command.

 

[klaus_k]

Thanks @ericmark , but do these points invalidate @SUNRAY's advice, or are they just a general comment on how PIR's work?

 

[Murdochcat]

Please don’t try and replace them with modern LED PIR lights and many don’t give you access to the SL

What sort of areas are you trying to illuminate?

 

[klaus_k]

SL??? What's that? Replacing existing light fittings, on front and edge of garage, out front of house.

 

[Murdochcat]

SL = switched live

 

[ericmark]

@SUNRAY is correct for that type, all I am saying is there are many types.

 

[SUNRAY]

@SUNRAY is correct for that type, all I am saying is there are many types.

Yes agreed, that is a very common method though.

Of course if not this type then come and ask further.

 

[klaus_k]

Stretching the question a bit (sorry). This is the light that got delivered - which does not officially support a master/slave configuration Would it make sense to take a tap off the red/black junction and use this to provide this facility? This would cause the PiR controlled 'live' to be shared between two units. The only risk I can see is overloading the wattage of the PiR switch, but the manual says that the maximum power consumption is 2x50W (i.e. 100W total) and each unit will be using 2x3W LED GU10 bulbs (12W total).

It looks like live is fed through the PiR switch to the bulbs (brown/red). Neutral splits with one side going to the switch and the other to the bulbs (blue/white). Earth goes directly to the metal casing.

 

[SUNRAY]

Stretching the question a bit (sorry). This is the light that got delivered - which does not officially support a master/slave configuration Would it make sense to take a tap off the red/black junction and use this to provide this facility? This would cause the PiR controlled 'live' to be shared between two units. The only risk I can see is overloading the wattage of the PiR switch, but the manual says that the maximum power consumption is 2x50W (i.e. 100W total) and each unit will be using 2x3W LED GU10 bulbs (12W total).

I personally have done exactly that a number of times and so far without any issues or promlems.

However I hope you understand that I can't state is will be safe or work for every PIR fitting.

 

[klaus_k]

Thanks @SUNRAY. If it doesn't work then tbh I haven't lost much - I can't seem to find any outdoor lights that officially claim to support master/slave. I'll leave it a day in case @ericmark @Murdochcat or others chime in with a scary warning. Absolute worst case that I can see is that the thing catches fire and burns the house down, but that scenario seems unlikely - it would apply if the 2x50W rating was exceeded too, and it is in a stainless steel case.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It's not really a master and slave arrangement, is it?

It is two masters operating the same two lights. If only one master is activated, it does not operate the other.

 

[klaus_k]

Impudence by name... either can be a master, in which case it become the master of the other lamp, which is the slave.