Duplicate.

[Tingly]

Hi
about to have a chimney stack reduction
The roofers use a firm of scaffolders
They need to go on our balcony
The roofing company which is pretty well established said we need to sign a disclaimer for any damage
Is this normal?
Thanks

 

[Swwils]

No lol

 

[Tingly]

Any idea what I should do? Do some scaffolders have some sort of insurance for damage then please? Not sure how it works. Thanks

 

[Swwils]

Have them sign a disclaimer for the disclaimer for any damage.

Forgive the joke, there is some essence in there: counter-indemnity clauses, in which one party agrees to cover the other for specific liabilities, do exist in some contracts.

However, in this case, it's probably more practical to ensure that the roofing company carries adequate insurance for any potential damages. This is fairly standard in the industry and provides protection for both parties.

 

[Tingly]

Thankyou Swwils. I have paid a small deposit and received an email with the date for the scaffolding on. I replied agreeing to the date, and asked if a member of their own team will be there to oversee the scaffold erection, make sure they put down a weight spreader of some sort on our balcony , and to check the men are putting the scaffold where the roofers want it.
The roofer called me straight away and said theyve done these jobs many times and are not daft, but I need to sign a disclaimer etc
First time this has been mentioned
I actually dont think theyll do it unless i sign it and it does need looking at.
Am frightened to do it, and frightened not to.
Not sure what to do.

 

[^woody^]

Anyone working at your property, be they taking a chimney down or putting scaffolding up, should be insured to cover any damage they may make. And that cover is for the worst case - eg the chimney or scaffolding falls through the roof, hits the gas or electrics and burns the house down.

No firm asking you to disclaim their potential damage and limit your rights to claim against them should be trusted.

Ask to see their insurance certificate.

Also be clear who is working for who. Are the scaffolders working for you, or working for the building firm? You need to know as that determines who is responsible.

Do not sign any disclaimer. You not only potentially sign away all your rights to claim for damage, but also potentially invalidate your home insurance cover too - so may not be able to claim on that if the need arises.

For reference, all tube scaffolding should be designed to a standard called TG20:21, and not just made up. So for anything "none standard" such as using a balcony, they would design the scaffolding with special software. Once erected, there should be a formal hand-over certificate to prove the scaffolding was properly designed and erected.

 

[Tingly]

Thankyou woody. I havent slept all night worrying. Yes i dont know who is working for who at all. We have had scaffold on it through a window company and didnt have all this trouble. It is a well respected roofer, guild of master craftsmen and ll that, but he was really sharp on me on the phone,and when i asked if they had the insurance for the scaffold he said ‘its not worth it’, ‘its notworth me doing the job’. I am reducing a chimney by 8 courses with some pointing of bonnet tiles while they are up there. It comes to 2300 poundswith the scaffolding. The scaffold is 1 rise tall and last time cost £500. I dont think we are doing it on the cheap or anything.
Another thing was when his partner came first to look at the job he said the work would be guaranteed for 5 years, when he came himself he said’i’ve got to to tell you, dont expect the pointing to be covered’. Theres lots of backtracking and he’s nasty. Then again i want the job doing cos worried about the chimney, but i see now i cant go ahead with these peopl….I dont want to invalidate my house insurance too,

 

[Tingly]

Pic

 

[^woody^]

Instincts and feelings are just as important as qualifications and references when choosing a firm to work for you.

You are the customer and no contractor should be nasty, evasive or making you feel uneasy.

You may have dodged a bullet with these characters.

Guild of Master Craftsmen is a club anyone can join with no real checks. Four Cornflakes tokens and a stamped addressed envelope the saying used to be.

 

[Swwils]

As above you may have dodged a bullet there.

 

[Tingly]

Thankyou both. Think i was dazzled by the credentials ‘accredited by the councils trading standards team’ sounded really impressive.
i am so pleased you mentioned instincts and feelings having importance….it is just that, his partner was lovely who came first, but despite of credentials this man really set alarm bells off with his abrupt attitude.
Just hoping I get my deposit back now.
Can I just thank you all again for your kindness. I have had a horrible week, and am feeling really vulnerable as it is, without this ‘mission creepk from the roofers original agreement. The fact that you bother to help, means such a lot. Gives me some faith back. XXX

 

[Tingly]

They have just sent me the disclaimer!

 

[^woody^]

That's so badly worded that it's both ambiguous for that contractor and onerous for the customer, which would make it unenforceable by the contractor and unfair for the customer - therefore invalid.

There are certain things that can't be limited or excluded under contract, or denied if implied into the contract by law. Even if you have no written contract.

However, best to just decline to sign any such document.

If the contractor is intent on wanting something signed, offer to enter into a formal unaltered standard Homeowner Building Contract, such as one from JCT or RIBA. And both be bound by its terms.

 

[Tingly]

Thanks Woody. Because he is so abrupt, and as he got so nasty, so quickly when I asked if he’d be coming to make sure scaffolders put plywood downfirst (like his partner who came to see me initially said they would) and then came up with a disclaimer, I have declined anyway, and dont think I want to engage in writing. His emails from the office have been polite , you know ‘any questions, dont hesitate’ etc, then he is the opposite on the phone. TBH i am frightened of him. Its mad really I have been saving for a year and now have a decent pot to get this and all the rest of my roofing jobs done , so missed out on thousands of pounds of work,
Bet I dont get my deposit back!

 

[JBR]

You can write reviews, though, and that could provide incentives for other customers not to use him.