EICR Certification Following Initial Failure

[Gashead86]

Hi Guys,

Wondering if any NICEIC registered engineers (or anyone who isn't but is ofay with the regulations) might be able to help..

I work for a small property maintenance company who use contractors for specialist trades, electricians being one of them.. I am having problems with uniformity in terms of how different engineers deal with the paperwork process if a EICR test fails and we then return to correct the flagged issues.

I wondered if anyone might be able to point me in the right direction (or just let me know from their experience) what the NICEIC approved / advised way of dealing with this situation is..

At present, I have one engineer who insists on returning to site to re-test (at an additional cost) once remedials have been completed and thus producing a new clean cert to go with the previous failed, another engineer who only produces the initial failed and that is it in terms of certification and then finally an engineer who will test initial and then if that test is a failure will return to rectify faults flagged and then at that point produce a new 'completion report' certificate that essentially confirms that items flagged on the failed EICR have now been rectified.
My gut tells me that the last option is the correct one and that is how all of our engineers should be operating, but they are all absolutely adamant that their way is the correct way.

This relates to domestic rental properties.

Is anyone able to kindly confirm the correct process and (if possible) point me in the direction of regulations stated that i can present to my stubborn engineers?

Thank You in advance for any help at all you might be able to offer.

 

[ericmark]

The way I read the law, even a receipt for parts required to rectify faults it good enough, there is no need for any re-test with new landlord law, I think that is daft and I would personally say a minor works needs raising to show work done not just parts bought, but you can read the law for yourself. Good start here what you need to remember what law requires is not always what is done by electricians, the law includes any equipment clearly not normally moved, so it would seem to me to include boiler, immersion heater (which seems reasonable) but also could include washing machine, tumble drier, fridge, freezer, etc. Which as electricians we would consider as part of the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment (PAT testing) not part of the EICR, i.e. we would not consider it as part of the installation. Anything Plugged in we would not consider as installed, but the new law it seems does.

I point this out as the Law and what people like NICEIC consider as part of an EICR or required are not the same, the EICR was never designed as being part of a law.

As you read the different government documents they seem to change their mind, so it is hard to say exactly what is covered.

“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(2);

“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

 

[scousespark]

This is nothing to do with the NICEIC. It is down to the SOP for the 3 inspectors and each is valid. You are the customer and you decide who you want to work with. The first step is the initial inspection. If this produces a 'satisfctory' EICR, then happy days. If it is 'unsatisfactory' EICR, you choose an electrician to carry out the remedial work and you receive an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate - Possibly minor). The EICR and the EIC together confirm your installation is satisfactory.

Inspectors 1 and 3 give you a clean EICR.
Inspector 2 gives you an unsatisfactory EICR and the subsequent EIC covers the failed items.

It's your choice as to which contractor you want to work with. In either case, you end up with documentation which confirms your installation is satisfactory.

 

[securespark]

It may be useful to read this:

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/electrical-safety-certificate-for-rental-house.562400/

 

[Gashead86]

Thanks for your help all.

 

[Diver Fred]

>>Snip<<

My gut tells me that the last option is the correct one and that is how all of our engineers should be operating, but they are all absolutely adamant that their way is the correct way.

This relates to domestic rental properties.

I'll agree that all 3 options are perfectly valid however I would say that Option 3 is the easiest one for the lay'person' (and council walla if necessary) to understand.

Working with the chap who did the one on my rented property he didn't issue the certificate until we had made all good. (changed bathroom light fittings and rectified a ring main 'bodge').

 

[securespark]

That's wrong. It's not a document to be issued when everything that needs attention has been rectified.

It is, as the name implies, an Electrical Installation Condition Report.

 

[JACKC]

If I have an unsatisfactory eicr, issue the report and invoice. If I'm asked to quote for repairs and get the work. I'll issue necessary test certificates and for the sake of 10 minutes on laptop, issue a new eicr to show satisfactory. If I dont get the remedial work then the electrician who carries out the repairs will issue his own test certification which along with the previous eicr will show repairs carried out.

 

[ericmark]

I had a home buyers report do before buying this house, in the report is included comments on the condition, on the electrical installation, he made a lot of mistakes, however it is a report on the electrical condition. We all know it is not what is intended by an EICR, however it still is one done by a professional.

I know that is ridiculous, but my point is there is very little to say exactly what must be done in an EICR, the law says BS7671 and that gives some guidance, like normally comprising of at least four pages, and the intended purpose for example, and with home buyers report we do have the intended purpose.

Until the new law it really did not matter, the inspector can and in the past has given C2 for very minor faults, or C3 for major faults, but as long as the faults were listed it really did not matter, it was only when the new law was passed that it mattered if C2 or C3, and inspectors now need to consider which code is given.

There are a number of organisations which guide us but in the main we use the best practice guide but some of the items listed don't seem to be anything to do with the installation over loaded sockets for example, and C3 = Improvement Recommended. N/V = Not Verified (Unable to verify) N/A = Not Applicable. and LIM = Limitation (Not tested or inspected) are not fails, so what is the difference between a LIM and FI = Further Investigation Required (FAIL)?

My point is not to say what should or should be done, but to say there are no fixed rules, guidance yes, hard and fast rules no. Don't blame the inspectors, blame the government for doing a law on the cheap.

 

[Risteard]

If I have an unsatisfactory eicr, issue the report and invoice. If I'm asked to quote for repairs and get the work. I'll issue necessary test certificates and for the sake of 10 minutes on laptop, issue a new eicr to show satisfactory. If I dont get the remedial work then the electrician who carries out the repairs will issue his own test certification which along with the previous eicr will show repairs carried out.

You shouldn't reissue the EICR marked satisfactory.

 

[JohnW2]

You shouldn't reissue the EICR marked satisfactory.

He said "a new EICR". If he did the remedial work indicated as being required on the initial EICR, why should he not, having rendered the installation 'satisfactory' not issue a new EICR indicating that?

 

[Risteard]

He said "a new EICR". If he did the remedial work indicated as being required on the initial EICR, why should he not, having rendered the installation 'satisfactory' not issue a new EICR indicating that?

Because he hasn't re-inspected it.

 

[JohnW2]

Because he hasn't re-inspected it.

I am aware of no requirement that all of the inspection has to be done on the same day - and there is little point in re-inspecting things that one inspected, and 'passed', very recently.

It's surely analogous with the situation with vehicle MOT tests, for which the process I described is (at least in England) what is legally required. Your car has an MOT test and you are handed a 'Fail' certificate. If the same place that did the test then undertakes the required remedial work immediately or in the near future, they provide documentation of that work (analogous with an EIC), 'inspect' just the work they have done and then issue a new, 'Pass', MOT certificate, without having to re-inspect all the things which 'passed' their recent test (which is why the second certificate is cheap or free).

If, analogous with what you are suggesting, the vehicle owner went around with his 'Fail' certificate and documentation that remedial work had been done, believing that this was an adequate demonstration of an 'MOT pass', he/she would be in deep trouble with DVLA (and the police if they were asked for their MOT certificate), not the least because, without a valid 'Pass' MOT certificate, they would not be able to 're-licence' their vehicle, so would be in trouble on two counts!

 

[Diver Fred]

That's wrong. It's not a document to be issued when everything that needs attention has been rectified.

It is, as the name implies, an Electrical Installation Condition Report.

If that was aimed at me - whilst I entirely agree with you I also have the practical experience of being a landlord with less than knowledgeable tenants.
they wouldn't look further than a report that is 'perfect'. I also doubt that a difficult council would accept a report with adendums.

 

[Gashead86]

This thread has somewhat proved that apparently there is no official correct way of doing this and therefore it is open to interpretation to the individual.

Based on the helpful feedback received here we have decide that as a company we will make it our own rule that in cases of failed EICR's we will send the failed certificate to our customer along with a quotation to rectify remedials and this quotation will now always include a installation certificate that will be produced once remedials are completed that can then be sent to the customer to be used in conjunction with the already submitted failed EICR certificate. This way our customers have a tangible document that shows the required works have been completed.

Obviously we now know that this is not necessarily a legal requirement, but we have decided that it is good practice and will implement it ourselves.

Thank you again all for your help.