Third Party Testing

[Pensdown]

Thanks Bas, before you post the second peice, I have a copy so I will have a quick read

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So Regulation 17 defines their obligation to issue a completion certificate, and Regulation 18 gives them the right to carry out such tests as are necessary.

I think that the extent to which they are obliged to enforce compliance is defined in the Building Act, and I don't have a copy of that, and it's too old to be on the OPSI (HMSO) website.

But the regulations do not give LABCs the authority to insist that particular persons carry out any given work, nor that it be certified by a 3rd party, and if the ODPM are to be believed, neither does the Building Act.

 

[Pensdown]

I was under the impression that Reg 17 was the complete sign off for any new works, but I need to read further

 

[ambrougham]

But the regulations do not give LABCs the authority to insist that particular persons carry out any given work, nor that it be certified by a 3rd party, and if the ODPM are to be believed, neither does the Building Act.

YET ! My money is on changes being made to the effect that they will no longer *have* to do any inspection, testing or certification etc. of any work directly (or by way of a sub-contract arrangement) but will be allowed to instruct the applicant to provide such documentary or test evidence that they may require to establish compliance.

Apart from the fact that I am reasonably sure I have seen some comments somewhere that indicate this is coming in the future (maybe on the ODPM site but I'm not sure) it is obviously also a very convenient way for a Local Authority to save large sums of money as well as protecting their @rses totally by offloading all responsibility and risk to someone else ! Can't be having Civil Servants taking responsibility can we ....

 

[empip]

Out of interest I e-mailed the ODPM ......

Dear sir / madam,
Please note from Bath and North east Somerset council web site with
reference to Part P.
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/BathNES/environment/buildingcontrol/Latest+News.htm
Quote :-

"2. Building regulation application - if this route is chosen there are
two options:-

(a). A qualified, registered electrician (member of NICEIC / ECA /
NAPIT) carries out or inspects the work. They can issue a design,
installation and test certificate under BS7671. Building Control will
accept the certificate as evidence that the work complies with Part P.
Additional inspections and tests by Building Control may be carried
out.

NICEIC - National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation
Contracting

ECA - Electrical Contractors Association

NAPIT - National Association of Professional Inspectors and
Testers


(b). Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or
is a DIY installation, the applicant will be required to have the work
inspected and tested by a registered electrician/inspector as in (a)
above. They will then be able to issue a certificate to Building Control
under BS 7671. "

My highlight and italics, I believe this does not follow your recommendations.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_037024.hcsp

Should they (BANES) not be addressing this ?
Regards
me

Much later I received this reply....

Thank you for your e-mail. I am afraid that it went astray for a long
time within this Office. I apologise for the delay in replying.

In fact in both cases (a) and (b) the document from the local
authority is in the ODPM's view not correct. Our view is as set out in
the attached Circular Letter. We shall be taking this up with the head
of building control for Bath and Northeast Somerset Council.

Thank you bringing this to our attention.

Ixx D..
Buildings Division
Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
4/A5 Eland House
Bressenden Place
London SW1E 5DU

Tel: xxxxxxxxx
GTN: xxxxxxxxx

A small change has been detected....

(b). Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or is a DIY installation, the applicant will be required to have the work inspected and tested by a registered electrician/inspector as in (a) above. They will then be able to issue a certificate to Building Control under BS 7671 or issue a Periodic Inspection Report under BS 7671.

This is different, but not fully compliant with ODPM's circular.

....There have been reports that some local authorities are asking householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work. Section 33(2) of the Building Act 1984 (which would give power to local authorities to require persons carrying out building work to carry out such reasonable tests, at the person's expense, of or in connection with the work for the purpose of enabling local authorities to ascertain whether the work complies with the requirements of the Regulations) has not been commenced. This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately.....

Have they?

 

[ambrougham]

Out of interest I e-mailed the ODPM ......

....There have been reports that some local authorities are asking householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work. Section 33(2) of the Building Act 1984 (which would give power to local authorities to require persons carrying out building work to carry out such reasonable tests, at the person's expense, of or in connection with the work for the purpose of enabling local authorities to ascertain whether the work complies with the requirements of the Regulations) has not been commenced. This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately.....

That's obviously the comment or a very similar one (regarding their right to request relevant documentary evidence) that I have seen before.

Have they?

In a word ... NO ! At least not in my area anyway. The last time I looked (some weeks ago) the form for a Building Plans or Notice Application still required me to sign a declaration to confirm that inspection/test/certification by a competent person would be carried out and that I would supply documentary evidence to Building Control.

 

[Pensdown]

BAS,

I have read through the posts but I still can't find were the LABC's role has been changed with respect to PP. Reg 17, as far as I know has always been in place to sign off the works, whether it's building works, drains what ever. For a new build, once a completion cert has been issued by the LABC the property goes on the land register has habitable, and for small works they are signed off as complete.

Although the ODPM is un happy with the LABC's interpretation, I can see where the LABC is coming from. It states in PP section 1 that the installation must be tested before it's brought into service and 1.11 states the inspection and testing for DIY work should meet that requirement. So it seems to me that if the works have been tested as section 1 they are quite within their rights to ask to see the cert. And if they are happy with the cert, then they can sign off the works

I know it goes against what we were all lead to believe was going to happen, but now that PP been introduced and the dust has settled, I think the LABC will sign off notified DIY works with a cert, either full or Periodic