Electric Car Infrastructure

[pipme]

30 single free journeys twixt Londinium and constituency per annum.

Ah, you see on this one, the joke's on them... No MPs actually LIVE in their constituency!

I am still trying to fathom how it costs 20p a mile to run a bicycle... Now, assume JP cycles to work one day (don't laugh, it could happen!). What is the distance between Downing Street and Westminster? You can walk it in less than 10 minutes, so about half a mile I reckon.

Assume that he stops off for 4 pies along the way... I am looking for the minimum case here. London prices, say £1.50 for a Ginster's.

That gives us a grand total of £12 per mile to run a bicycle. MINIMUM. That doesn't include replacing buckled wheels, or any small dogs and children he might squash along the way. Nor any costs incurred by punching people (the only thing he has ever done that earned respect from me!).

So I reckon that 20p a mile is very reasonable for an MP to ride a bicycle. Provided they are JP.

Constituency .. just a word, someone with a vested interest has decided it is cheaper to provide 20 journey open ticket ... fom x to London.
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[kendor]

I was thinking. The way the price of fossil fuels is going up, there is bound to be an increase in the ownership of electric cars. Now I know hydrogen fuel cells are the way forwards, but let's assume for now that the main seller is the good old battery-powered electric car.

Let's assume the daily electricity requirements of an average household of 4 people are:

4 x 10 minute 9.5kW showers = 6.3kWh
30 minutes of cooking in an electric oven = 1.5kWh
Assorted other electricity use = 2kWh

Total = about 10kWh/day.

Now, this family buys 2 electric cars, and commute for roughly 1 hour a day each (30 minutes each way). Now, an average Mondeo-sized car uses around 30bhp for driving along a straight and level road at 60mph or so. Whilst the electric car may have regenerative braking etc., remember it is considerably heavier than it's petrol equivalent so we will take 30bhp as our figure. That's about 22kW.

So, car electricity usage:

2 x 1hour x 22kW = 44kWh/day

Now, if everyone is to drive around in electric cars, the average household electricity requirement is going to increase from 10 to 54 kWh per day!

Can the national grid cope with this? Are there any plans to increase the number of power stations (let alone nuclear stations) to meet this increased requirement? Can we foresee a programme of "grid rewiring"?

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if we all woke up tomorrow and someone had replaced our smelly noisy fossil-fuel engines with batteries, invertor and motor. Especially if I get my flying car. But I think the government needs to take this seriously, produce a plan, and tell us all what it is.

Your reasoning is a bit off the track here, you are implying that the grid will have to cope with the power required from the car when it is running ,how long a lead are you going to use? and if the car is going to pull that when charging I hate to think how big the charger is going to be!

 

[AdamW]

Nah, my reasoning (as always) is perfect I was using kWh, which is energy, i.e. power x time

So, I was adding up the total energy requirements of the cars rather than power. Recharged over 8 hours it isn't toooo bad, 5.5kW. So it should be within the capabilities of the grid: provided they are prepared to supply 5.5kW to millions of houses simultaneously for 8 hours straight!

Including industry etc., we will need power stations and a national grid with a Terawatt total capacity, if we haven't already! One terawatt... You only need 1.21 gigawatts to travel back in time

 

[pipme]

Ah ! ha ! That's what the 24 / 7 malarky is all about then !

You lot (the workers ) Will be zoned and have to work different parts of the 24hr day ... then you will not all be charging up your batteries at the same time.
Come on folks the 'pubs' are about to go 24 hr ... surely only worth it during the week for non or shift workers, not exactly the majority by any means. It's the thin end of the old wedge .....

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[AdamW]

"Metropolis" here we come!

 

[pipme]

More like 'disaster street'

This morning, the Bank of England released its latest Lending to Individuals figures, which show that UK borrowers owed a massive £1,004,290,000,000 as at the end of June. For the record, we now owe £827 billion on mortgages, plus a further £177 billion in unsecured debts (credit and store cards, personal loans, overdrafts, etc.).

Of course, our mortgage debt isn't too much of a worry, because our £827 billion of home-loan debt is backed by an estimated £3 trillion of property wealth.
Not to the lenders, at that level of collateral .. at present ... So everything is ok is it ?
Doesn't the capital need to be repayed at some time ? .. Bank aint worried about that as long as they get the due interest paid ...

I give up ... how can an educated nation be so stupid !!
I remember people unable to meet mortgage repayments handing keys to Building society .. house sold cheaply to vultures ... years later the debt is being chased down plus interest .. potential disaster.
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[masona]

Can't the Bank of England write the debt off as they do to others country?

 

[david and julie]

I am confused by these figures, is the £827 Billion owed on the same £3 trillion worth of property?

Or is £3 trillion the total value of the countries housing stock. In other words, are they justifying this, by including the value of houses with no mortgages, in the figures?

Personal debt would look even worse if it included cars. Many of the people with CC debt would also have cars etc, on plp's and such packages, which are not actually individual debt, but still have to be paid.

Many people are now living well beyond their means. I was in a pub the other day when a young lady was settling her food and drinks bill by CC, she was on her third card before it got accepted and she never even flinched.

This is all down to the banks, they are of alway's increasing CC limits without asking you. Plus some people are just to weak in this respect and want everything today.

 

[pipme]

I reckon there is plenty of smoke and mirrors going down here.

1) A bank is a bank is a bank.
2) No problem in this debt ... from the banks' point of view the value of houses and savings outweigh the amount of debt. ... at current values.
3) They are in the business of making dosh ... nothing else. Providing a service ? Nah, making dosh .. the service aspect just makes it look good.
4) No matter what the interest rate ... the capital must be repaid .. high property values and low inflation IS NOT the same as we saw in the past !! High inflation reduces the cost of the debt over time .... low inflation keeps the cost high.

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[mildmanneredjanitor]

I was wondering. If I got myself an electric car and fitted a deisel powered generator in the boot. Could I run that on Vegetable Oil without paying the Tax. I wouldn't use the diesel for transport, just for generating the electric.

I've often wondered about this sort of setup, a small engine just to generate enough to charge the batteries.

Would this be viable?

I know they have complicated hybrids that run on petrol and electric, but these are complex, therefore expensive. A little battery car with a built in genset would have pretty good range and be reasonably cost effective. I think???

Lets look at the figures... Cue Adam!

 

[AdamW]

Well...

The problem with having a genset running in a car to recharge the batteries is that it still needs to be quite powerful (no 250cc 2 stroke motors here!). You could effectively run a Focus sized car with a 1 litre engine in this way, provided you didn't want to do too much in the way of accelerating. The engine can produce a constant power output all the time with batteries taking the peaks and troughs.

This Would be very efficient and reliable as you could design a smallish diesel engine to constantly run at e.g. 2k rpm whether you are stopped or moving. An engine designed to run at one speed is very efficient, hence the fact that a state-of-the-art container ship can move 1 tonne of cargo 1000 miles on 1 gallon of diesel.

Very large plant machines (such as the largest dumper trucks used in quarries today) have a hybrid system: a huge diesel engine driving a generator, which then drives electric motors in each wheel. It is an efficient way of doing things, but quarry managers don't generally consider country-lane twisty performance when selecting their trucks!

So to sum up, it would be pretty good, but you would have to balance the weight of genset + fuel + a few "smoothing" batteries against just batteries in an all-electric car. You could be on to something mate! Anyway, what's to worry for you, I thought down in the riviera solar powered cars would be commonplance

 

[securespark]

Hee,hee. I'm a very happy bunny cos I don't have a mortgage...! Yipee!

 

[kendor]

Nah, my reasoning (as always) is perfect I was using kWh, which is energy, i.e. power x time

So, I was adding up the total energy requirements of the cars rather than power. Recharged over 8 hours it isn't toooo bad, 5.5kW. So it should be within the capabilities of the grid: provided they are prepared to supply 5.5kW to millions of houses simultaneously for 8 hours straight!
Including industry etc., we will need power stations and a national grid with a Terawatt total capacity, if we haven't already! One terawatt... You only need 1.21 gigawatts to travel back in time

again you are quoting 5.5kw they would only need to supply a few ampa over that time i know what Kwh means but as you stated in your reply the power is over a time and trickle charging a car would not put a strain on the grid.

 

[AdamW]

Hee,hee. I'm a very happy bunny cos I don't have a mortgage...! Yipee!

Ah, cheap houses: the benefits of living in the middle of nowhere eh?

 

[pipme]

Hee,hee. I'm a very happy bunny cos I don't have a mortgage...! Yipee!

Sorry didn't quite get that !!

The best part of this situation is the first 6 months or so without. Like everything else one gets used to it ... Just buy a newer skip I suppose .. or perchance the twin exhaust version ... wheelbarrow !!

Happy days !