Electric heaters - need to extend the cable length - but how ?

[ban-all-sheds]

I own the shops.

Yes, but whether you own, lease or rent it you can't just do in a shop what you could do at home.

 

[securespark]

Like taking your clothes off & having nookie...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not allowed to comment on that as the case is still sub judice.

 

[Talay]

Yes, but whether you own, lease or rent it you can't just do in a shop what you could do at home.

Agreed but that's why I am here, to get some advice.

On the flip side, there isn't a "you can't do anything approach" which is sensible.

I didn't know how to drive from place X to place Y but I got the maps out, found the way and arrived safely. Same here, we need a roadmap for a safe solution which is practical and expedient. Calling the cavalryisn't always the solution (though there are times to do so).

 

[Iggifer]

I didn't know how to drive from place X to place Y but I got the maps out, found the way and arrived safely

Yes, but you took driving lessons and passed a driving test. You could drive around aimlessly without any idea where you're going and do it safely.

Bad analogy.

Your best bet is to fix an extension lead to the wall and if you want it tidy, use some trunking. No need to break the law

 

[sparkwright]

Ideally one would add sockets of switched fused connections units closer to the heater positions - but you are looking for a simpler solution.

As said, extend the heater flex with flex the same size, or larger will be ok.

The joint MUST be in an enclosure. You can use 15 amp connectors in a pattress box with blanking plate; or a 20 amp minimum junction box. The box must be fixed to the wall, and the cable must be secured, either with cable clips or mini-trunking.

Alternatively use a flex connector rated at 13 amp or above. These will cable clamps to keep the cable secure where it enters the connector enclosure, though you'll still need to clip the cable to the surface.

If in doubt send photos.

 

[333rocky333]

you may need to access whether the circuits can handle the load of these heaters.

This time of year we get lots of calls where stores have simply brought argos heaters etc and simply plugged in to any available socket.
Most heaters nowadays are 2kw and 3 of these in 1 building can possibly trip a circuit.

some shops only have low rated circuits for the till areas and tend to be where these heaters get located.

only last week we had to run 3 temporary circuits in a clothes shop and even a 3phase 32 amp is wanted for a large space heater in a staff canteen

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I didn't know how to drive

And when that applied, did you reject advice from people who told you that therefore you must not take to the public roads behind the wheel of a car?

 

[Talay]

And when that applied, did you reject advice from people who told you that therefore you must not take to the public roads behind the wheel of a car?

If you cut the quote to suit your purposes than that is a bit underhand don't you think ?

My post was that I already knew how to drive but that I didn't know the directions to my intended destination. Poor analogy perhaps but not worthy of quoting out of context to support a point of view.

 

[Talay]

And when that applied, did you reject advice from people who told you that therefore you must not take to the public roads behind the wheel of a car?

You have a harsh agenda, which I suspect is because you think every non electrician should get an electrician to turn on the kettle in the morning or change a plug.

Were it as simple as giving the work order to a sparky to complete at a sensible price then we, and I suspect 90% of the other posters here, wouldn't actually be here but rather we would have our own sparky, chippy and builder all working for us on a regular basis. What I object to is guys who seem to think a lack of work in other areas of their business should be compensated for by charging folks like me X hundreds for simple jobs taking limited time. We had a great fellow but he retired and the next guys sold up and went for domestic rather than commercial and support tailed off so we don't currently have anyone recommended.

I fully accept that I am asking for advice and am willing to take criticism and we might end up back at the stage of getting in a professional if there is no realistic and safe layman solution but please lighten up a bit on the negatives eh ?

 

[Talay]

you may need to access whether the circuits can handle the load of these heaters.

This time of year we get lots of calls where stores have simply brought argos heaters etc and simply plugged in to any available socket.
Most heaters nowadays are 2kw and 3 of these in 1 building can possibly trip a circuit.

some shops only have low rated circuits for the till areas and tend to be where these heaters get located.

only last week we had to run 3 temporary circuits in a clothes shop and even a 3phase 32 amp is wanted for a large space heater in a staff canteen

Historically the same places have run 1 or 2 x 2/3kw heaters on extension leads but I consider this unsafe and want a better solution, hence the ideal of the low heat background heater on a wall and a safe way to extend a connection to the 3kw heater (to replace the current heaters on extension leads).

I am looking at an air curtain but given the false ceilings, it will have to be over door (for now) and thought this might be suitable https://www.airconcentre.co.uk/dimplex+ac3n+3kw+air+curtain+over+door+heater/3598797513?

It is only 3kw which might be a DIY job or if we went up to 6/9/12kw then we need separate wiring, space on the board and a professional installation.

 

[Talay]

Ideally one would add sockets of switched fused connections units closer to the heater positions - but you are looking for a simpler solution.

As said, extend the heater flex with flex the same size, or larger will be ok.

The joint MUST be in an enclosure. You can use 15 amp connectors in a pattress box with blanking plate; or a 20 amp minimum junction box. The box must be fixed to the wall, and the cable must be secured, either with cable clips or mini-trunking.

Alternatively use a flex connector rated at 13 amp or above. These will cable clamps to keep the cable secure where it enters the connector enclosure, though you'll still need to clip the cable to the surface.

If in doubt send photos.

Thanks.

This would seem the ideal solution, to take the connection in trunking from an existing socket to the fused connection and then hard wire in the heater at that point. That removes the need to extend the cable from the appliance and is visually the most pleasant (aside from chipping into the wall etc.)

There are some guides here which the inquisitive non professional may find useful - I always find pictures a good thing:

http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/electrics/socket-outlets-spur-from-existing-socket.html
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/electrics/fused-connection-unit.html
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/electrics/socket-outlets-spur-from-a-junction-box.html
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/electrics/socket-outlets-extending-the-ring-main.html

One assumes of course that the above are correct and the below from B&Q is also good information:

http://www.diy.com/help-ideas/how-to-add-more-electrical-sockets/CC_npcart_400163.art

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you cut the quote to suit your purposes than that is a bit underhand don't you think ?

My post was that I already knew how to drive but that I didn't know the directions to my intended destination. Poor analogy perhaps but not worthy of quoting out of context to support a point of view.

No - it was not at all underhand.

I accept that you know how to drive. But once upon a time you did not.

And at the time when you did not, what was/would have been your attitude to advice to therefore not drive on public roads?

You think it's a poor analogy, but it's actually better than you think. In this case it is not the situation that you know how to drive but don't know the route - you do not know how to drive.

You have a harsh agenda, which I suspect is because you think every non electrician should get an electrician to turn on the kettle in the morning or change a plug.

Nonsense.

Were it as simple as giving the work order to a sparky to complete at a sensible price then we, and I suspect 90% of the other posters here, wouldn't actually be here but rather we would have our own sparky, chippy and builder all working for us on a regular basis. What I object to is guys who seem to think a lack of work in other areas of their business should be compensated for by charging folks like me X hundreds for simple jobs taking limited time. We had a great fellow but he retired and the next guys sold up and went for domestic rather than commercial and support tailed off so we don't currently have anyone recommended.

Then you have to find someone.

You still don't seem to get it. This is a place of work - you MUST comply with the requirements of the EAWR, and the mere fact that you are here, because you think that all you have to do is ask for "directions", shows that without a doubt you are not competent to do that. If you truly were competent you would not need to ask, you would know.

If you truly were competent you would never in a million years have thought that wrapping a connector block in insulation tape was an option. You just wouldn't.

And following instructions from here, or other websites, or DIY store leaflets will not make you truly competent.