Electric meters with pulse output. Seals.

[bernardgreen]

but as a solution for a landlord with dodgy tenants, it's too easy to block the monitor and receive free electric!

The reading on the calibrated meter will determine how much they need to pay you for electricity used and is ( I believe ) the only legal way you can charge for the re-sale of electricity. Whether you can legally disconnect the supply if they default on payment at billing time is something I do not know. You cannot issue a bill based on the count of LED pulses.

Your coin box idea is valid if you describe it as a way for them to save the right amount of money ready to pay the bills you give them. If the rate per coin is set to be slightly higher priced than the agreed cost per unit then you will be giving them the difference so at billing time they do not have to have any cash to to pay you.

The photo diode can be mounted in a light proof screen to keep ambient light out of the photo diode. The sudden change of intensity as the LED lights and goes dark can be detected by a circuit that ignores slow changes of ambient light. If the LED is rapidly pulsed when lit then that frequency will be easy to detect and changes in ambient light completely ignored.

False triggering will increase the amount the tenant is saving and provided [1] it is not excessive and [2] the excess is refunded at billing time it should be legally OK.

 

[RMIM]

Err....

Landlord...

Reselling electricity to tenants...

DIY metering...

DIY coin mechanism...

I don't think so.

secondary metering is legal, your rate has to be the same you get charged. i dont make profit on the bill. it's cheaper for the tenants this way rather than have british gas install their meters, which would cost me nothing.

everything i do is legal.

DIY? I have bought professionally built coin timers in the past, specifically for landlord use etc - I dare say I can build something just as safe and a whole lot more sophisticated thanks to the word of pics. Just because it's DIY does not mean it cant be as good as a professional built system, besides it a modular build - I'm not building every component, I'm piecing together various components. http://www.ebay.com/itm/260811137183?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[RMIM]

but as a solution for a landlord with dodgy tenants, it's too easy to block the monitor and receive free electric!

The reading on the calibrated meter will determine how much they need to pay you for electricity used and is ( I believe ) the only legal way you can charge for the re-sale of electricity. Whether you can legally disconnect the supply if they default on payment at billing time is something I do not know. You cannot issue a bill based on the count of LED pulses.

Your coin box idea is valid if you describe it as a way for them to save the right amount of money ready to pay the bills you give them. If the rate per coin is set to be slightly higher priced than the agreed cost per unit then you will be giving them the difference so at billing time they do not have to have any cash to to pay you.

The photo diode can be mounted in a light proof screen to keep ambient light out of the photo diode. The sudden change of intensity as the LED lights and goes dark can be detected by a circuit that ignores slow changes of ambient light. If the LED is rapidly pulsed when lit then that frequency will be easy to detect and changes in ambient light completely ignored.

False triggering will increase the amount the tenant is saving and provided [1] it is not excessive and [2] the excess is refunded at billing time it should be legally OK.

Any +/- in cash over the month will be adjusted when the actuall paper bill is sent out. It's unlikely to be out more than 5pounds per month (you have the problem of multi tier rates 29p 15p 5p). but even a multi tiered system can be programmed into this unit i will build, it cant on my current system - it mechanical, u have to chage the rate manually.

 

[JohnW2]

DIY? I have bought professionally built coin timers in the past, specifically for landlord use etc - I dare say I can build something just as safe and a whole lot more sophisticated thanks to the word of pics. Just because it's DIY does not mean it cant be as good as a professional built system, besides it a modular build - I'm not building every component, I'm piecing together various components. http://www.ebay.com/itm/260811137183?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649[/QUOTE]
Do I take it that the device will turn off the power if/when the coins 'run out'? If so, how is that going to be achieved?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

secondary metering is legal, your rate has to be the same you get charged.

Yes and yes.

I'm not suggesting that the concept is wrong - what I questioned was whether you may charge them for the usage recorded on a non-calibrated meter, particularly one which uses a DIY'd method of recording usage, and whether you can make your own coin mechanism (although I note that subsequently you clarified that the cash collected would be reconciled with the "actual" usage).

 

[RMIM]

DIY? I have bought professionally built coin timers in the past, specifically for landlord use etc - I dare say I can build something just as safe and a whole lot more sophisticated thanks to the word of pics. Just because it's DIY does not mean it cant be as good as a professional built system, besides it a modular build - I'm not building every component, I'm piecing together various components. http://www.ebay.com/itm/260811137183?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649[/QUOTE]
Do I take it that the device will turn off the power if/when the coins 'run out'? If so, how is that going to be achieved?

Kind Regards, John.

my current mechanical one does.
http://www.stephenpwales.co.uk/Product/coin_meters/pp100.htm

But we never let the money run out.

I don’t have plans to cut the whole house off with this new one as the tenants don’t mind paying their bill, I'm sure they will not let the thing go negative.

But if I did it would have to be a 100A solid state relay (bought off the shelf). Would have to find out if it's legal (from a safety point that is, as for cutting the electric off - well the prepay meters that suppliers provide do just that, they do give you a 5 pound reserve which my machine could do as well.)

Another method, again, I don’t intend on doing this - it to trip the RCD. What do you think of this method BAS? (Hides from BAS). It would be a lot cheaper than a solid state relay. These are just ideas where we weigh out the pros and cons and legal issues.

 

[RMIM]

secondary metering is legal, your rate has to be the same you get charged.

Yes and yes.

I'm not suggesting that the concept is wrong - what I questioned was whether you may charge them for the usage recorded on a non-calibrated meter, particularly one which uses a DIY'd method of recording usage, and whether you can make your own coin mechanism (although I note that subsequently you clarified that the cash collected would be reconciled with the "actual" usage).

well it's not, non-calibrated, do you doubt the flashes of my meter (provided by my electric board)? (agreed my system has to record them acurately) the system i build will be more acurate than my curret mechanical system.

the coin mechanism will be bought. link is at the top.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don’t have plans to cut the whole house off with this new one as the tenants don’t mind paying their bill, I'm sure they will not let the thing go negative.

Hang on - is this a single-household dwelling, i.e. just one tenant?

If so why do you need another meter at all?

But if I did it would have to be a 100A solid state relay (bought off the shelf).

Not a contactor?

Another method, again, I don’t intend on doing this - it to trip the RCD. What do you think of this method BAS? (Hides from BAS).

 

[RMIM]

I don’t have plans to cut the whole house off with this new one as the tenants don’t mind paying their bill, I'm sure they will not let the thing go negative.

Hang on - is this a single-household dwelling, i.e. just one tenant?

If so why do you need another meter at all?

But if I did it would have to be a 100A solid state relay (bought off the shelf).

Not a contactor?

Another method, again, I don’t intend on doing this - it to trip the RCD. What do you think of this method BAS? (Hides from BAS).

It's a multidwelling. 4 people. Who are much happier since the meter went in. Now they dont waste.

Contactor? this is why i'm here, to learn. I will look it up, unless you have time to explain it to me. thanks.

 

[RMIM]

Not a contactor?

Great idea. had no idea these existed. Do they fit inside the consumer unit?

 

[JohnW2]

Contactor? this is why i'm here, to learn. I will look it up, unless you have time to explain it to me. thanks.

It's just an electrician's term for an electromagnetic relay - probably much more appropriate for your purpose than a solid state one.

'orrible though it sounds (and much flak will it generate!), I wouldn't personally have much of a problem with the concept of 'tripping an RCD' as you suggested - but to serve any purpose, that RCD would have to be inaccessible to the tenants, and you would have to get 'called out' to reset it every time it tripped! With an relay/contactor, the supply would presumably come back on as soon as the machine was fed some coins.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

It's a multidwelling. 4 people. Who are much happier since the meter went in. Now they dont waste.

Are there 4 separate meters and coin boxes then, or do these 4 people have to 'come to an arrangement' with each other to keep the electricity flowing?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[RMIM]

Hang on - is this a single-household dwelling, i.e. just one tenant?

If so why do you need another meter at all?

Even if it was, people like prepay. I have a tenant that took a house as a whole. I simply received rent. All bills were on her name. She decided by herself to have both gas and electric prepay meters installed by the supplier. They told her it would cost the same as a normal post paid bill, they lied.

She now wants to revert back to post paid - they told her she can't. Im not sure of the actual figure, but I think it costs you 20% more. I hope I can get rid of the meter when she leaves one day.

 

[RMIM]

It's a multidwelling. 4 people. Who are much happier since the meter went in. Now they dont waste.

Are there 4 separate meters and coin boxes then, or do these 4 people have to 'come to an arrangement' with each other to keep the electricity flowing?

Kind Regards, John.

Years ago I used to have 4 separate meters. Tenants would run long extension cords to socket that were not on their meter (living room). So now I bill as a whole. Everyone's energy requirement is the same, they all have a fridge and they all have a tv. I let them police themselves. They seem to be consuming 3 pounds per day - there are 4 of them and the meter only takes pound coins.

 

[RMIM]

Contactor? this is why i'm here, to learn. I will look it up, unless you have time to explain it to me. thanks.

It's just an electrician's term for an electromagnetic relay - probably much more appropriate for your purpose than a solid state one.

'orrible though it sounds (and much flak will it generate!), I wouldn't personally have much of a problem with the concept of 'tripping an RCD' as you suggested - but to serve any purpose, that RCD would have to be inaccessible to the tenants, and you would have to get 'called out' to reset it every time it tripped! With an relay/contactor, the supply would presumably come back on as soon as the machine was fed some coins.

Kind Regards, John.

again just an idea:

The coin meter would be powered via a circuit not on the rcd. When the money ran out a condition (earth connected to neutral (plus resistor?)) would occur and remain that would trip the rcd. If you tried to reset the rcd, it would trip in your hand. Feed the meter, condition is removed, reset the rcd. The consumer unit is always accessible to the tenant. just and idea - if anyone could point out the dangers or modifications.