Energy efficiency of these bulbs?

Time wise first few seconds, since we get the inferred without heating the air, it is perceived, one can't get a thermometer to measure it, and even the colour of our cloths will make a difference.
My thinking was that, since incandescent bulbs get extremely hot, I would have expected that a substantial proportion (perhaps even the majority) of heat transfer from it would be by convection, not 'IR radiation' - and that would be slow and would have little impact on the temp of air in the room.
And of course leave the curtains open and it can travel through the window out just like the sun comes in.
You obviously don't believe in greenhouses :) ... visible and, in particular, UV light can get in through the glass, and heats things up, but the infra-red from the heated-up things struggles to 'get out' through the glass!

Kind Regards, John
 
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I have to agree with @big-all it is very hard to put figures on energy lost and gained in a room. However energy efficiency must be amount of energy used compared with amount of energy doing useful work, and so the big question is if heating the room with a light bulb, is useful work?

Today likely answer is no, 24.8°C in my bedroom, and 13.6°C outside, really need to open window, but if I do that, the local wild life may also visit, and don't really want moths and bats flying around my room.

But without using heating, there are more days when my room is under temperature than over temperature throughout the year, so ¾ of the year, heat is good.

However the diagrams show circulation circulation.jpgcirculation2.jpgand the two diagrams, not drawn by me, show very different ideas on how the heat moves around the room, and my house has more than one room.

Heat can transfer room to room, as well as outside, and in my mothers house we had at least three temperature measuring devices around the living room, and on a sunny day I have recorded 10°C difference in different areas of the same room.

The Myson fan assisted radiator did even the temperature out, but is that good or bad, blowing warm air to single glazed windows is not good, better if there is a cool area around the window, we have all seen the air curtain used in shops.
 
You obviously don't believe in greenhouses :) ... visible and, in particular, UV light can get in through the glass, and heats things up, but the infra-red from the heated-up things struggles to 'get out' through the glass!
You are referring to Q glass, which way around should it be put, should it stop the suns rays coming in during the summer, or inferred heaters rays getting out in the winter, or should the pains be on hinges so you can turn it around summer to winter?
 
You are referring to Q glass, which way around should it be put, should it stop the suns rays coming in during the summer, or inferred heaters rays getting out in the winter, or should the pains be on hinges so you can turn it around summer to winter?
No, I'm referring to regular glass, including the cheapest and nastiest of horticultural glass as used in greenhouses, or domestic window glass - visible and (in particular) UV gets through it very easily, but IR very poorly. If that were not the case, greenhouses would not 'work' (i.e. would not exhibit the 'greenhouse effect'), since heat would leave just as easily as it entered.

Kind Regards, John
 
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I have to agree with @big-all it is very hard to put figures on energy lost and gained in a room. However energy efficiency must be amount of energy used compared with amount of energy doing useful work, and so the big question is if heating the room with a light bulb, is useful work?
I suppose that that depends on what you mean by "useful". Essentially all of the energy supplied to anything electrical will end up as heat in the environment in which the item is located.

If (as in summer) one is using no heating and the room (and occupants) is warm enough before the light is switched on, then the additional energy due to the light is clearly anything but useful. When heating is being used, then the energy may be 'useful', since it will enable the amount consumed by the primary space heating to be (slightly) reduced - but that would really only make sense if the space heating was using a 'fuel' more expensive than electricity (if one exists!).

However, you've introduced an additional and different concept - that having at least some radiant heating may, in some circumstances, allow people to be 'comfortable' with appreciably lower air temperature in the room - and that possibility exists whether the radiation is coming from an incandescent light bulb or an actual 'IR heater'.

To pick up on another point you made, and moving to cost-saving (rather than energy-saving), even if the running costs were the same (which they clearly aren't), and despite the fact that cheap LEDs are more expensive than were cheap incandescents, I'm sure by changing from incandescents to LED I have dramatically reduced my expenditure on replacement bulbs/lamps (in my very large house with more lights than I care to think about!). I used to buy large batches of incandescent bulbs every month or two, but I now buy small batches of LEDs every year or three.

Kind Regards, John
 
Mrs Sunray has a UVA & UVB intolerence issue and once suffered 'sunburn' on boxing day while hanging out the washing (think red wine and white table cloth), she will be burnt by the sun reflecting off a china plate but can quite happily sit in the sun coming in through a window.
 
Mrs Sunray has a UVA & UVB intolerence issue and once suffered 'sunburn' on boxing day while hanging out the washing (think red wine and white table cloth), she will be burnt by the sun reflecting off a china plate but can quite happily sit in the sun coming in through a window.
Due to the combination of SiO2 and NaO2, glass blocks out wavelengths <310nm, so UVB and C are (mostly) blocked (hence no sunburn), but there is still enough UVA (315-400nm) to cause the greenhouse effect! :)

...and one of the first experiments we use to demonstrate our IR camera, is to show the opacity of a clear glass sheet :)
 
LED light bulbs have more flexibility to what tungsten ever did, being able to reduce light output and of course power used, without any change in colour temperature, or to change colour temperature without reducing output, and to change colour without needing to paint the glass.

To have lit a display cabinet like this 1657014231787.jpeg with tungsten light, with first two cabinets changing colour would have been very hard with tungsten.

The demise of the pearl coating on the tungsten bulb means they had a very harsh light, and replacing the envelope with quartz resulted in not being able to dim the bulbs, without reducing life, and the intimate use of the CFL resulted in the removal of dimming switches, and the traditional UK wiring may be good for emergency lighting and fans, and reduces the loop impedance, but does not lend itself to the use of electronic switches, be it simple on/off or dimming. We see charts published by the electronic switch manufacturers as to what bulbs will work with their switch, so often we need to use more expensive bulbs to use with electronic switches, which cost nearly as much as the smart bulb.

The whole way of lighting the home has changed, the 100 watt tungsten light bulb gave out a lot of light, in nearly all directions, the LED base means it has a dead zone, and to find a LED bulb with 1000 lumen output may be in theory a 15 watt LED but in practice they don't throw the light out as far, so we need more light fittings, and smaller bulbs, to get the same spread of light. My old house had two 100 watt tungsten bulbs when bought in the living room, it now has 10 x 5 watt LED, and seems no brighter, so LED is about 4 times the output of tungsten in real terms, but the charts try to say it is around 10 times the output, we buy a 5 foot replacement for a fluorescent tube, and it seems such a saving, 22 watt instead of 58 watt, but also output is 2000 lumen compared with 5000 lumen, that is some reduction in light output.

It is likely the 4 times is because each bulb is so close to another in a group of 5, and if the lighting was rearranged with 4 points instead of 2 points, LED would work out better, but 16 x GU10 down lights to replace one 5 foot fluorescent is going too far, 16 x 5 = 80 watt v 58 watt, how is that better?

So the display cabinet shown is used to supplement the lighting that side of the room, turned to white of course, I know centre light is 22 watt, I went onto the Ikea web site to see the output or wattage of the LEDBERG using in the smaller cabinets, 1.5 watt 90 lumen, which explains why centre one is turned down to minimum output. Same light used to light a worktop in kitchen 20220626_085339.jpg again likely a little over kill at 22 watt, and pointless as can't really work on the work top, too much clutter, but compared with parents house, dad had a 40 watt bulb, the options were 15 watt pygmy or 40 watt, and the pygmy bulb was more like a tocH candle, it was as extreme as the Lidi strip light 22 watt v Ikea strip light 1.5 watt, getting it just right has always been hard, but today we can adjust the brightness of the lights, without leaving the comfort of our own phone. (didn't that use to he home?)
 
I have not noticed any difference it perceived temperature, with the switching the house from tungsten, to CFL, then most recently (but beginning some six years ago) to LED. I have the heating by default, set to night = 16C, day - 18C, with the 18C manually tweaked to 20C if I feel the need. What seems to mostly affect the 'need', is what I happen to be doing at the time and self generated warmth. Sitting about watching TV, an higher temperature is needed - a throw and some company can make a big difference to that.

I never draw curtains, I am not easily over looked and don't like the boxed in feeling they create. My present ones are not even designed to be drawn. What I do have is vertical blinds, which are drawn briefly on an evening, to limit the sun into the sunny side rooms of the house.
 
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I think you are behind the times. With gas prices soaring but only about a third of UK electricity being generated from gas, the differential has reduced, and probably will continue so to do - not to mention the fact that, in the long-term, the days of gas are 'numbered'.
I'm paying E 27.358, G 7.28 so 3.76 times the cost. As a means of generating heat, a tungsten lamps is perhaps 90% efficient, with most of that heat rising by convention.
 
Due to the combination of SiO2 and NaO2, glass blocks out wavelengths <310nm, so UVB and C are (mostly) blocked (hence no sunburn), but there is still enough UVA (315-400nm) to cause the greenhouse effect! :)
Indeed
...and one of the first experiments we use to demonstrate our IR camera, is to show the opacity of a clear glass sheet :)
Quite - and that seems to be the bit that eric didn't realise.

Kind Regards, John
 
As a means of generating heat, a tungsten lamps is perhaps 90% efficient, with most of that heat rising by convention.
As I wrote to eric, that's what I would have expected, so the 'radiant heat' he postulated is probably fairly trivial.

Kind Regards, John
 
LED light bulbs have more flexibility to what tungsten ever did, being able to ...
There are so many reasons to favour LED over incandescents that I find it a little strange (maybe 'amusing') that there is so much discussion about the matter!

Kind Regards, John
 
I never draw curtains, I am not easily over looked and don't like the boxed in feeling they create.
I must admit lazy both opening and drawing curtains, however I do find drawing curtains keeps the rooms cooler in the summer, blinds on the outside would be even better.

I like the view from the windows,
1657030278512.png
but clearly have poor double glazing as the sheep are so loud this time of year, but I don't tend to sit there glued to the window, but it is a better view to the LED lights.
1657030536129.png
 

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