English what do we call it?

[ericmark]

Talk about two way switching and we all think of the double switch arrangement where two switches both control the same lamp. However I would consider two way to be on and off. i.e. one way is on the other is off.

Moving on we have three way switching where for example a PIR is used so centre off with one way to switch on lamp at all times the other to set control through the PIR. Or is it? Others refer to three way as adding an intermediate switch so three switches control the same lamp.

However the intermediate switch system could have 10 switches controlling the same light hardly what one would call three way.

So how should one refer to a system with two change over switches and an intermediate without there being a possibility of being misunderstood?

I can see using two switches as being two way as the switch is called a two way switch which of course is correct it can send power in one of two ways. But some how three way switching just seems wrong for an intermediate switch system. The switch has only two ways not three so why call it three way?

 

[JohnW2]

So how should one refer to a system with two change over switches and an intermediate without there being a possibility of being misunderstood? ... I can see using two switches as being two way as the switch is called a two way switch which of course is correct it can send power in one of two ways. But some how three way switching just seems wrong for an intermediate switch system. The switch has only two ways not three so why call it three way?

I wouldn't (call it "3-way"). Indeed, if it were not for the fact that it had become established as (IMO confusing and potentially misleading!) jargon, I would not talk about 1-way and 2-way switching in the way that it is used in these contexts, either. Functionally, it is all just on-off switching. Had I been responsible for the original invention of the jargon, I would hope that I would have come up with words less confusing (and potentially misleading) than these! How about something like "3-switch on-off switching" for what you are describing? Thinking from basic principles, I think I would expect the functionality of a '2-way switch' to be that it controlled two lights (or whatever), one of which came on when one switched the other off, and vice versa.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think you have to distinguish between switches and switching.

 

[JohnW2]

I think you have to distinguish between switches and switching.

Indeed, and when talking of switches, just use the time honoured terminology of "X-pole, Y-way", so as to leave absolutely no scope for confusion/uncertainty.

As I said, if I were not aware of the established jargon, I would have expected "N-way switching" to refer to a situation in which power was switched to one of N possible loads, not when N switches were switching one load on/off.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

not when N switches were switching one load on/off.

What would you call that?

 

[JohnW2]

not when N switches were switching one load on/off.

What would you call that?

If I were trying to invent clear and unambiguous terminology, I would have to think very carefully about that. As I said a message or two back, one suggestion off the top of my head (without any 'very careful thinking') was "N-switch on-off switching" - although I don't much like that one, and am sure that I could do better with a bit of time.

I'm not even convinced that we need a word/phrase/jargon for it, since one can explain in fairly concise simple English what one means - e.g. "one light controlled by three on/off switches".

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Glad I am not the only one who thinks the English is poor. Until I started with domestic I would have called a two way switch a single pole change over switch and an intermediate switch a reversing switch.

I see nothing wrong with calling the switches intermediate or two way but it's the circuit which seems wrongly named. It is the word "Way" which seems wrong.

2 position switching or 3 position switching would to me better describe the system. I am sure there are other words which could be used 2 station switching would also seem to fit. But can't see how "way" describes the system.

 

[Lectrician]

I have always known it as "Two Way And Intermediate".

 

[securespark]

Yes, me too.

 

[clifford1]

In electronics component terminology, there are "poles" and "ways".

"Off" is not a way, it is just off.

Therefore we have:

One-pole on-off
Two pole on-off, etc

One pole 2-way
One pole 2-way with centre off
One pole x-way with centre off, or off at one end, etc

Two pole x-way

x pole y way, etc etc.

Domestic wiring switches would therefore commonly be:

One pole on-off, eg simple light
Two pole on-off, eg shower heater
One pole two-way, eg landing light

Plus there is the odd case of the changeover switch, which has two poles but they swap over, used for more complicated multi-way lighting.

 

[JohnW2]

In electronics component terminology, there are "poles" and "ways".

Indeed. As I wrote earlier ...

Indeed, and when talking of switches, just use the time honoured terminology of "X-pole, Y-way", so as to leave absolutely no scope for confusion/uncertainty.

However....

"Off" is not a way, it is just off. Therefore we have: One-pole on-off ... Two pole on-off, etc

I'm not sure that one even has to deviate from the conventtion to that extent - "1-pole, 1-way' cannot really mean anything other than "1-pole on-off". It's only in those few cases in which one has a 'centre off' or 'end off', in addition to active 'ways', that one really needs to introduce the word 'off', and 'on' is never really required at all, except perhaps for on-off push or pull switches.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

Glad I am not the only one who thinks the English is poor. Until I started with domestic I would have called a two way switch a single pole change over switch and an intermediate switch a reversing switch. I see nothing wrong with calling the switches intermediate or two way but it's the circuit which seems wrongly named. It is the word "Way" which seems wrong.
2 position switching or 3 position switching would to me better describe the system. I am sure there are other words which could be used 2 station switching would also seem to fit. But can't see how "way" describes the system.

I agree that the word 'way' is really inappropriate for circuits/systems. I suspect '2-way' evolved naively (without enough thought) simply from the fact that the circuit used 2-way switches (which, as you say, is reasonable enough terminology for the switch). When making suggestions last night I toyed with "position", but then realised that it could be taken to mean 'position of a switch'- hence similar (but not identical) to 'way'. Your suggestion 'station' would avoid that. However, as I wrote yesterday, do we really need a name for the circuit at all? In electronics circles we certainly wouldn't bother.

Every trade, profession and walk of life has its own jargon, evolved over time and often in places very illogical - and the world of electricians is most certainly no exception. I'm sure I could produce a long list of 'electrical jargon' which is at best 'non-intuitive' or at worst potentially misleading to outsiders....

... a good example of the latter is 'Continuity' (as in 'continuity measurement'). To most of the rest of the world, 'continuity' is essentially qualitative - with a visual or audible indication of when resistance (occasionally impedance) between two points is below some pre-set figure. However, in the electrical world, from the IET downwards, the word has seemingly come to be used to refer to quantitative measurement of (lowish) resistance (or impedance).

I some cases, one cannot help but think that non-intuitive or potentially confusing jargon may have evolved as a means of creating a 'mystique' around the trade/profession/whatever and/or to deliberately make it difficult for 'outsiders' to understand!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ericmark]

It is true that some of the defined words don't seem to follow logic. If I was not in the trade I would have considered skilled as better than competent and low voltage to be under 50 volts not 1000 volts.

As said there is some logic in a circuit using two way switches being called two way but that does not really allow for if we add more than two switches to a single circuit.

The two way and intermediate does seem to make sense. As to off not being a way yes I would agree normally with something like a rotary switch we would say and off. So my oven has a 9 way and off switch.

So from what has been said I would conclude calling it 2 way lighting may not be 100% correct but is acceptable. However calling it 3 way lighting when an intermediate switch is added is not.

Would you agree?

 

[JohnW2]

As said there is some logic in a circuit using two way switches being called two way but that does not really allow for if we add more than two switches to a single circuit. .... So from what has been said I would conclude calling it 2 way lighting may not be 100% correct but is acceptable. However calling it 3 way lighting when an intermediate switch is added is not.

I think that's correct, in terms of current jargon. I certainly don't think that '3-way lighting' is a good idea, since I strongly suspect that interpretations of what it means would vary appreciably!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Talk about two way switching and we all think of the double switch arrangement where two switches both control the same lamp. However I would consider two way to be on and off. i.e. one way is on the other is off.