Evidence found - they've been doing the vaccine injections wrongly?

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i find the arguments rather odd as most people at some point in their lives will have had injections in their upper arm. They are over in seconds. Aspiration would extend the time significantly. The other point of course is the people who give the jabs know where the vein is. Also it is completely impossible to give a jab without breaking capillaries so some blood may come back anyway.

Air in the jab has been dealt with. One aspect I would add from my own experience is that my booster is the only jab I have ever had where I felt immediate pressure in my arm from an injection. The quantities didn't look any different to the usual so probably air. ;) I mentioned the pressure to the person who did it. She looked thoughtful. No point comparing with my wife as she always has pain - this one no different to others. The same lady did both of us. We went in together, saves repeating the short talk they give.

So probably air and I am still ok. It can only have gone one way. The feeling more or less disappeared after several hours. No signs at all the following day.
 
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Air in the jab has been dealt with. One aspect I would add from my own experience is that my booster is the only jab I have ever had where I felt immediate pressure in my arm from an injection. The quantities didn't look any different to the usual so probably air. ;) I mentioned the pressure to the person who did it. She looked thoughtful. No point comparing with my wife as she always has pain - this one no different to others. The same lady did both of us. We went in together, saves repeating the short talk they give.

I have and need several regular jabs, blood samples and IV. Most of the jabs, I notice little pain usually from the needle going in, mostly I feel the contents of jab going in. Even more noticeable when the contents is cold. I had a tetanus jab 10 years ago, where I felt absolutely nothing at all. The IV's and samples are the more painful, cringe worthy and often they don't get it right first time, into a vein, then they need to try again. I have had them only succeed on the third attempt sometimes.
 
This evidence they found... Was it on Fantasy Island they found it or what? Did it come on, "The plane, Boss, the plane!"?
 
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apart from your own imagination, what evidence causes you to assume air?

What does probably mean? As to the other comment I'd suggest you find a more interesting life as you appear to need it.
 
Interesting given that you started this thread with this:

Even if you don't care, you are not recommended to aspirate normally and this is part of normal training. You were wrong, and like I said making basic mistakes undermines your credibility.

When you're taking about making a difference of single digits in millions of vaccines, yes that does start to be a factor. How many people would avoid their second shot if they know it hurts?
This is where simple science started to hand over to public health science, which is hard.
No, I'm suggesting that of you can only get 4 doses out of a vial instead of 5 then that's one dose lost for the rest of the world.

You seem to think we should start retraining the vaccination teams to aspirate now, and see if the science ever catches up. Which is fine if there were no down sides to aspiration. But there are negative effects that even amateurs on the internet can identify.
 
More invalid, irrelevant valueless poo and utterly pointless allegations from twitminion.

I quoted Campell. You do have to read the content of links. Look what nurse-responders to his videos say.
It WAS the norm for decades to aspirate I-M injections. Why? Because of the danger of inadvertent IV injection. Get it wrong with some injections, your patient dies. Nothing new or contentious there. Aspiration wasn't a mistake. Read around a bit more if you thought it was.
Yes, we know the blanket practice changed at some point. NSS, and that's what may have created the unexpected problem. Nobody has suggested the thoughts behind the change inpractice or how the obviously dangerous injections are segregated, but that's not key here.

The question, as posed in post#1, is whether some vaccines have increased danger if inadvertently injected as I-V.
Twitminion asserts that the way the situation was described affects the danger of the injection procedure, because it was a "Basic Error" in posting. Excrement, it can make absolutely zero difference to the question. It's completely irrelevant.
Unfortunately that is beyond the scope of twitminion to see.
Calling anything like that "Basic Error", is twitminion's Basic Error of comprehension.
The lad must be dishonest, or rather "limited" to say it - what other explanation is there?

He gains deserved insults for posting repeated similarly irrelevant, wrong or illogical or otherwise junk. All the insults in the world don't affect the validity of the question either.

--
He goes on to say "Single digit difference in millions". He's made that up. No reference.
Campbell's claim in the video, number for the difference is 43 in 1M.

And "if they know it hurts". Hurt adults? If it's routinely done in adults is doesn't hurt any more than any other, as far as I know. It can often hurt young children who wiggle about, is what I read. But we aren't vaccinating many young children. My and others' here mix of injections has been random, sometimes there's a minor pain, always negligible. So that's unreferenced made up twitminion crap too.


Then we got some extra irrelevant tat about the number of doses in a vial. Nope, aspiration to avoid inadvertent I-V-I has no bearing on the number of doses you get from a vial . Is that ignorance, urge to post something without thought, or what? Both probably, it's junk.

"You seem to think we should start retraining the vaccination teams to aspirate now" - no, an incorrect claim, just more junk from twitminion. There are many ways to address the issue, presumably beyond the wit of that "contributor" to imagine. Or is it just too tempting to created yet another straw man?


As usual twitminion's contribution is wrong, irrelevant, unreferenced, ignorant - in various combinations - junk. And again, one has to think on purpose, so trolling again.
 
The question, as posed in post#1, is whether some vaccines have increased danger if inadvertently injected as I-V.
No it wasn't. But I see why you refuse to use the quote function, it's easier to make stuff up this way.
 
the question, as posed in post#1, is whether some vaccines have increased danger if inadvertently injected as I-V.

well that's funny.

I just checked post no. 1

and no, that's not true.

It wasn't.

Please explain.

Well it appears that's true.
I'm no medic and I may have something wrong here, but it looks more interesting that most stuff.

It's been questioned for some time, whether the intramuscular injection should be aspirated or not.
The instruction from the producers has been NOT to do so.
However, anyone who has done basic nursing training has had it drummed into them that that aspiration should always be done with i-m injections.
There have been claims and criticisms, eg here https://healthfeedback.org/claimrev...-needed-to-confirm-or-reject-this-hypothesis/

For those who haven't met the term, it's sucking back a bit with the syringe so you check for blood. You're meant to be injecting into muscle, so if you see blood, you've hit a blood vessel. You should see plasma-type stuff.

John Campbell (Youtuber) has been banging on about it since months ago, and now there's more recognition, and some results to show validity.

He says there's a BMJ paper - There's one here
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068665/rr
which so far I haven't read - Google found it but it looks to be the one.
He cites this https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1 for AZ.
This would apply to Pfizer, Moderna, Astrazenica and other vaccines.

Background - there are three basic injections. Subcutaneous (under the skin), intramuscular (into a muscle) or intravenous. Some of the drivers to determine the choice are the speed at which you want your drug to disperse around the bod, the reaction at the injection site, speed, pain and I daresay more about which I know nothing.
If you use i-m, you're going to be rupturing cells as you go in, and the liquid (particulate drug type for these vaccines) will mostly go into the interstitial spaces between the muscle cells, which is basically lymphatic fluid. From there it follows the lymphatic system and goes through a number of lymph nodes. The biggest is the spleen, but I'd have to look it up... On the way, the idea is that the particles are taken up in dendritic cells which proliferate in the lymphatic fluid - though there are some in blood too. Muscles are well served with fine blood vessels, so you will always get some of your jizzm into the blood.
The issue with injecting straight into a blood vessel, is that the carrying liquid goes around the bloodstream more rapidly, so sensitive anatomies will be presented with a lot of the stuff at once, causing damaging reactions.
What was first seen was an American woman who had "activity" in number sites, shortly after an i-v injection was apparently done. Tests have been done on animals for ages, but the volumes are different, etc etc.

What they've seen is various sorts on inflammation where the vaccine has "arrived" leading to emboli in the lungs, phagocytosis in the liver(dead cells), excess immunological reactions in the spleen, and so on.
We also know for example that the specific adenovirus carrying the DNA in the AZ vaccine happens to be particularly attracted to a platelet factor 4 protein found in lungs, where there are a lot of platelet precursor blood cells. That protein is also part of the cytokine (messaging) system. The platelets aggregate, leading to blood clots and throbocytopaenia ( shortage of platelets for important stuff).

The other sites we've heard them going on about are around the heart (pericardial) and the blood brain barrier.

The big reveal in Campbell's video is that he speaks to a Danish prof who has been looking at trials of aspirated injections in Denmark compared with non-aspirated technique in Norway. They claim they found 3x fewer incidences of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis(Pericarditis is swelling and irritation of the thin, sacklike tissue surrounding your heart (pericardium)) in the Danish cohort. Being an extremely well published academic he should have his protocols all done correctly. He says his chi-squared test is clear. I haven't seen the numbers to check. There should be a 95% certainty in there.

Many quacks and non quacks have been saying forever that these sorts of inflammatory (and other) direct-contact reactions are going to kill everyone, so they may get all excited now.
The reason for not injecting kids is (I read) that where these extremely rare reactions occur, we don't know how long-lasting the damage is. Adults repair over time, on the whole, it is said.

One of the main reasons given for the mechanism not being significant, was that the distribution of cases falls predictably across the age-range, so it was thought that there wasn't "room" for a significant other factor. 3x sounds significant to me.

I've asked all three of my impalers about aspiration. They all said they'd been instructed not to, and one said the syringe wasn't suitable. Apparently it's a bit slower and there's a small incidence of trouble of some sort - maybe they break the needles sometimes, no idea. It's unreliable in that you don't always see blood if it's too thick to go up the fine needle... and the syringes cost more (that'll be the reason). Loads online like https://www.ciamedical.com/insights/aspirating-syringe/

The world's most jabbed jizzm is the AZ one, and as far as I can understand that's one which would be particularly important to change protocol for.

Buy popcorn.
 
Aren't you in danger of parodying the likes of ELFImpudence, ella, Godwasawoman, et al?
It's about reduction, not avoidance.
I have no idea about those characters. If you mean the question is about reduction of risk rather than avoidance, then yes, I agree. We don't know if/how much of a vaccine going into bloodstream might be dangerous. For me the evidence isn't conclusve but it's troubling.

When someone has to resort to quoting Nadim Zahawi, I suspect their argument is fragile.
No, I'm not providing any argument to counter your comments. I'm just expressing my opinion of Nadim Zahaw
Somebody suggested asking the health/covid minister. I wasn't "resorting to quoting", just replying that they'd just said they didn't have any evidence. Actually I think it was the bloke before Zahawi. Campbell shows the reply.
 
No it wasn't. But I see why you refuse to use the quote function, it's easier to make stuff up this way.

Stop the silly accusations.

What's the point of reposting the same words?
The question was posed in the first post; it suggested covid vaccines may have been causing damage by inadvertent I-V introduction, which could be reduced by aspirating.
That is not contradictory to "whether some vaccines have increased danger if inadvertently injected as I-V."
If you didn't get that, then you misunderstood.
The whole thread has been on that theme. Do you disagree?
If you just want to complain that those aren't exactly the same words you're just trolling.
 
well that's funny.

I just checked post no. 1

and no, that's not true.

It wasn't.

Please explain.
I just did, in the post above. You have to read the post and the links, subsequent links, explanatory posts then summarise it in a line.

I'd say it was an ok summary. You're accusing that's not true. Explain.
 
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