Excessive Gas Consumption - Not sure what to try next!

[SpecialK]

Do you have any previous bills for comparison on the old meter or is it just due to the smart meter that you can now see what you are actually using?

Does your version of tado support ebus? This would allow the thermostat to control the boiler better. I think it has to be the V3+

The android octopus watch app is good for an overview of usage. It also shows the average outside temperature.

 

[mjr_havoc]

Do you have any previous bills for comparison on the old meter or is it just due to the smart meter that you can now see what you are actually using?

Does your version of tado support ebus? This would allow the thermostat to control the boiler better. I think it has to be the V3+

The android octopus watch app is good for an overview of usage. It also shows the average outside temperature.

Hi, thanks for your insight. I have one previous bill as the meters were changed from imperial ones and I've only been in the property for a few months.

I did have a look into the ebus... I have two problems, first is ebus seems to be good for combi boilers and not so much for open vented boilers like mine. Secondly, apparently Tado removed ebus from the UK version of the controller so it can't be used. It is still available on EU versions of the controller if you can get hold of one.

 

[DP]

Deleted

 

[mjr_havoc]

That boiler will consume 30 kW in one hour if it is running full tilt. For that to happen is rare

What controls do you have on hot water cylinder and is there any room thermostat fitted. Do you have separate living and sleeping zones? Is the hot water on 24/7 heat up time?

Good thing is you are now thinking about it so you can take steps to effect a cure

Not sure about controls on the hot water cylinder. I know the immersion heater is off at the switch. I did see a thermostat on the cylinder but it's in an awkward position and the hot water is only on for a total of 1 hour a day which is sufficient at the moment, so don't think hot water is the issue. Also, not sure what a 24/7 heat up time is...

There is a wireless room thermostat but it's almost not needed as the Tado TRVs fitted to each radiator are effectively thermostats. No separate zones, all heating is on a single zone.

I made changes to the central heating configuration last night and will report on the outcome this evening. So far, looks better but I don't want to jinx it!

 

[Mister Banks]

That's interesting. It goes against the modern accepted practice. I agree, because I don't like walking into rooms which are freezing.

I think smart TRV’s can work in certain situations but are not a solution for everyone. They certainly haven’t worked for me and since removing most of them and going back to manual TRV’s on most radiators my gas usage has decreased and my comfort has increased.

 

[mjr_havoc]

I think smart TRV’s can work in certain situations but are not a solution for everyone. They certainly haven’t worked for me and since removing most of them and going back to manual TRV’s on most radiators my gas usage has decreased and my comfort has increased.

To be honest I only have one bill on the old imperial meters. And this was with the hive heating system (which was just a single thermostat for the whole house and traditional TRVs). The gas usage was more or less the same with that system. The bill was for 5,000 kWh for a month.

The hive was set to heating to 20°C during the day and 18°C during the night. The reason for this is that the house is poorly insulated and the bedrooms (especially the kids) lose heat quite quickly. So I needed to keep a lower temp at night rather than turning it off completely (frost protection).

So I don't think that will help me unfortunately.

 

[Mister Banks]

To be honest I only have one bill on the old imperial meters. And this was with the hive heating system (which was just a single thermostat for the whole house and traditional TRVs). The gas usage was more or less the same with that system. The bill was for 5,000 kWh for a month.

The hive was set to heating to 20°C during the day and 18°C during the night. The reason for this is that the house is poorly insulated and the bedrooms (especially the kids) lose heat quite quickly. So I needed to keep a lower temp at night rather than turning it off completely (frost protection).

So I don't think that will help me unfortunately.

I have a Drayton Wiser setup with daytime set to 20c and overnight set to 17c. The house very rarely drops to below 17c overnight but I was finding that certain radiators with smart TRV's were registering lower temperatures overnight and calling for heat unnecessarily (the hall and kitchen). I also have rooms that I am happy to let the temperature drop a little and hence didn't want them calling for heat, these room radiators work well with a manual TRV and only get heated based on overall house temperature controlled by two room thermostats (one in hall and one in lounge) which are paired with smart TRV's in the respective rooms. This is maybe not the conventional way the manufacturers want us to think hence their marketing campaigns promoting smart TRV's on every radiator as the way to go.

 

[Mister Banks]

Thank you for your insight. I have tried to mitigate the cycling issue by not having standard TRVs on the towel rails in the bathrooms. So when any radiator with a Tado smart TRV calls for heat, it also heats up the towel rails.

I have set the flow temp to 65 as suggested earlier, hope this is ok.

What is the minimum your boiler will modulate down too? Mine is a little over 7.2kW which means I have to have most radiators on to prevent short cycling of the boiler.

 

[flameport]

the house is poorly insulated and the bedrooms (especially the kids) lose heat quite quickly

The house has 5 beds,

Problems:
Poorly insulated large house
Heating set to high temperatures 24 hours a day

The result - high gas usage.

Solutions:
Install insulation
Set overnight temperature to something more realistic such as 15
Heat when actually required, not 24 hours a day.

I am going to turn off that room completely

Heating is intended to heat the building.
Not heating some rooms won't do what you think it will, as it will dramatically increase the heat loss from adjoining rooms making those ones require substantially more heat.

 

[mjr_havoc]

What is the minimum your boiler will modulate down too? Mine is a little over 7.2kW which means I have to have most radiators on to prevent short cycling of the boiler.

No idea, how do I find this out?

 

[mjr_havoc]

Problems:
Poorly insulated large house
Heating set to high temperatures 24 hours a day

The result - high gas usage.

Solutions:
Install insulation
Set overnight temperature to something more realistic such as 15
Heat when actually required, not 24 hours a day.


Heating is intended to heat the building.
Not heating some rooms won't do what you think it will, as it will dramatically increase the heat loss from adjoining rooms making those ones require substantially more heat.

Thank you for your insights.

I note what you are saying about insulation and heating only select rooms. I am only turning off the heating for the moment to check my theory that it was that room causing the high usage. Once I have determined if it was the cause I can then look at resolving the issue. For this particular room, it has an old style fireplace and you can feel a draught when standing next to the unlit fireplace.

 

[Rodders53]

New home to you. Whether rented or bought there will be an EPC for the home.

As inaccurate as those tend to be there will be some "estimates" of annual energy consumption and the assessors assumptions on the building insulation / construction. Can you share some of those numbers? Perhaps over a whole year your use will be similar to the estimate from the EPC?

Usually, insulating and draught proofing a home makes the biggest difference, of course.

Unused chimneys can be fitted with a device to stop / reduce the draughts.
Mine has a bin liner and old pillow up it (why build a chimney in a new build, now 16 years old, that can't be used as an open fire/woodburner and then place a decorative electric fan heater in the hearth?).

 

[Jurassicspark]

I used to have smart TRV's on all my radiators, I have now removed nearly all of them. It makes no sense heating a room at a time.

For you it may not but it does make sense.

Unoccupied rooms that don't suffer from mould issues don't need to be heated. Turning them off will make the boiler reach its desired temperature faster.

 

[mjr_havoc]

New home to you. Whether rented or bought there will be an EPC for the home.

As inaccurate as those tend to be there will be some "estimates" of annual energy consumption and the assessors assumptions on the building insulation / construction. Can you share some of those numbers? Perhaps over a whole year your use will be similar to the estimate from the EPC?

Usually, insulating and draught proofing a home makes the biggest difference, of course.

Unused chimneys can be fitted with a device to stop / reduce the draughts.
Mine has a bin liner and old pillow up it (why build a chimney in a new build, now 16 years old, that can't be used as an open fire/woodburner and then place a decorative electric fan heater in the hearth?).

Thanks for your insights, I have looked at the EPC and it is an overall D (which is apparently the average rating for properties if a similar size).

It mentions estimated energy needed in this property is 33,000 kWh per year for heating. I guess if you factor in seasonality of usage, this may be roughly what I am seeing... thanks for pointing that out.

I might end up blocking off the chimney as you mentioned as the room is our usual lounge and I need to heat it!

 

[Nozzle]

What meter was installed before the smart meter... metric or imperial units of measure?

Certainly my bill has a converstion from m3 to kW.. older meters be cubic feet to kW with a different factor to convert.

(I've not thought about whether it's to your advantage, I've not read the rest of the thread to see if anyone has already sugggested it. I've shot from the hip)

Does your boiler short cycle?

Nozzle