explaining the purpose of neutral wire?

It all relative, innit :)

So it seems to me to depend on your frame of reference. (If that is on a moving vehicle, does your ammeter read a lower current? :) )

At least, that's how it looks from where I am standing. Your frame of reference may vary.

The star point on a motor vehicle is NOT neutral in fact no part of the AC output is neutral as it in normally the negative which is connected to earth so non of the three phases or star point will be neutral.

Thank you Davelx for pointing this out.

:D You give me too much credit. That was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity - that time passes more slowly in an accelerated frame of reference - ie a moving vehicle. :p
 
Sponsored Links
If you were travelling at light speed (say in a transit connect diesel).
Would all the electrical items in the vehicle stop working due to the inability of electrons to travel in a forward motion?
Or possibly, if they could still travel forward and effectively be travelling faster than the speed of light, would they travel back in time?
If that were the case, could it be that the headlights start emitting light a few seconds before you turn them on?
 
oh and another thing,
What if you were accelerating hard whilst approaching light speed?
Would the elctrons at the back of a cable, travelling forward crash into the electrons at the front of the cable, if so, this could let to some kind of low level nuclear fusion in the cable. This could turn the transit into dirty bomb!
I think that would fail an MOT

tyres - tick
windscreen wipers - tick
headlamps - tick
presence of weapon of mass destruction - fail
 
Sponsored Links
What if you were accelerating hard whilst approaching light speed?
Are you lighting a B&H, holding a mobile and looking out for totty in open-top cars at the same time?

B&H? nah, have to roll my own - old vag. Can do it one handed so allowing phone holding with other.
totty? driving 'hard'? ooh-err matron :LOL:
 
5_1.jpg
 
mikhailfaradayski said:
Would all the electrical items in the vehicle stop working due to the inability of electrons to travel in a forward motion?

As seen by a stationary observer - that is one who believes themselves to be stationary - nothing in the vehicle would move anywhere because it would appear frozen in time but --

From the point of view of the driver, everything would appear to work normally and it is you, the observer, who would be frozen in time. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Although the flow of current in a moving vehicle does appear slower to a stationary observer, I'm fairly confident that the ammeter would read exactly the same. The laws of electromagnetism would ensure this. Here's a nice little thought experiment that's sometimes given to physics students:

Two electron beams are travelling parallel to each other. Each has an electrostatic field that repels the other. Each also has a magnetic field that attracts the other. Calculate the combined force. :?: :?: :?:

An observer moving alongside the electrons declares that there is no magnetic field and so gets a different answer. What's going on? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Is there any speed at which the two forces cancel exactly?

The third question provides the clue to the conundrum. As one student put it, "A magnetic field is just a relativistic manifestation of an electric field." :cool: :cool: :cool:

Would the elctrons at the back of a cable, travelling forward crash into the electrons at the front of the cable

Electrons do have mass and so they tend to pile up at the back of an accelerating conductor. They don't get very far before electrostatic repulsion stops them but the effect is detectable. It was once used in an attempt to measure the mass of the electron.
 
mikhailfaradayski said:
Would all the electrical items in the vehicle stop working due to the inability of electrons to travel in a forward motion?

As seen by a stationary observer - that is one who believes themselves to be stationary - nothing in the vehicle would move anywhere because it would appear frozen in time but --
Who is stationary and stationary in respect to what? The observer could be located on a distant planet, observing the speeding transit connect from a vast distance away. Taking the blatantly obvious propagation delay experienced by the observer due to the time taken from light emitted from afore mentioned transit diesel travelling at Cvel to arrive at the eyeball of the interstella observer. How could one safely conclude how valid any such observations were?
From the point of view of the driver, everything would appear to work normally and it is you, the observer, who would be frozen in time. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Hang on, am i observing or driving?
Am i to infer that your ascertation is that the faster you move, the slower you appear to move?
Although the flow of current in a moving vehicle does appear slower to a stationary observer, I'm fairly confident that the ammeter would read exactly the same.
Ah, but would this be related to the location of the ammeter?
If the ammeter were inside the transit, i might agree, but if the ammeter were mounted on a distant planet and utilising some un-feasibly long test leads (never going to be GS38 compliant, before you mention) how would the electrons move in that instance? Would the potential nuclear fusion occur at some point in the test leads?
The laws of electromagnetism would ensure this.
Law? at best, what we understand of our physical existence of all matter, you could only call it 'non-mandatory regulation'. 'Guidance' if you will. AFAIK, nobody or astral entity or deighty have so far been prosecuted for failure to comply with your 'law' of physics.
Here's a nice little thought experiment that's sometimes given to physics students:

Two electron beams are travelling parallel to each other. Each has an electrostatic field that repels the other. Each also has a magnetic field that attracts the other. Calculate the combined force. :?: :?: :?:
You need to be more specific in your questioning. You describe that the electrons are travelling parallel to each other, however, you don't specify if they have identical speed, let alone velocity. Given the ambiguity, it could be the case that their vectors are parallel, yet opposite in direction.
An observer moving alongside the electrons declares that there is no magnetic field and so gets a different answer. What's going on? :confused: :confused: :confused:
One observer had a skin full of cheap cider at the S/U bar last night and can hardly even speel his name at the moment? (just a guess)
Is there any speed at which the two forces cancel exactly?
speed or velocity?
The third question provides the clue to the conundrum. As one student put it, "A magnetic field is just a relativistic manifestation of an electric field." :cool: :cool: :cool:
personally, i'd give that student a dry slap for trying to be a smart Rs.
Would the elctrons at the back of a cable, travelling forward crash into the electrons at the front of the cable

Electrons do have mass and so they tend to pile up at the back of an accelerating conductor. They don't get very far before electrostatic repulsion stops them but the effect is detectable.
So as i near the final stages of my overhaul of a vauxhall combo to allow it to cruise at warp factor 8, do you think it would be wise to progressively increase the CSA of electrical conductors toward the back of the van to allow for the 'bunching' of electrons due to atomic level inertia under acceleration at near light speed?
Before any pedants jump in here, warp speed isn't available whilst reversing - that would be silly.
It was once used in an attempt to measure the mass of the electron.
But they gave it up as they realised that this research would not enable them to increase fees payable by the average electrician and felt it a fruitless task.


I still say the neutral is the blue one.

I have too much time on my hands today:cool:, i might go and see if theres any re-runs of Red Dwarf on Dave
 
Before any pedants jump in here, warp speed isn't available whilst reversing - that would be silly.
It would be if you fitted a reversing transfer box, as has been done in the past on some military vehicles, then you could have the same number of reverse warp speeds as forward.
 
What if you were reversing at warp speed on a conveyor belt which is turning in the opposite direction?
 
Before any pedants jump in here, warp speed isn't available whilst reversing - that would be silly.
It would be if you fitted a reversing transfer box, as has been done in the past on some military vehicles, then you could have the same number of reverse warp speeds as forward.

Hmm, might have to re-assess the drag co-efficient of the combo whilst in reverse, i doubt it will be as good. However, i might be able to offset this a bit if i take the roof rack off.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top