Extending a short BT drop wire to a new master socket?

[c128]

I moved into my house about three years ago now and, at the point I moved in, organised with NTL for telephone and broadband. Now...recently I've been boarding out the loft and I've found the old BT drop wire coming in just under the eaves - it has effectively been trimmed off quite short just as it comes into my loft i.e. the same two way wire from outside makes it into my loft by about 60cm. There were obviously once red and black longer cables attached to each line of the drop wire as there are 10cm "stubs" of each left, each connected with a rather greasy tubular connector... I don't know whether this extreme "trimming" was done before I moved in, as I never used the BT line, or by NTL when they installed their stuff, but that's where I find myself at.

I'm currently happy with NTL, but as I'm doing the loft now I'd like to connect everything up on the off-chance that I move back to BT in the future. What I'd therefore like to do is connect up an NTE5 master socket on the bottom of the chimney breast near my loft hatch where my NTL master socket currently sits. So...this means I need to run around a 10 metre wire from the location of my new master socket to where the drop wire comes into my loft.

Now the question .

I know the usual "you're not meant to touch this" stuff, but am I correct in thinking I just need to connect the raw drop cable as it comes in from outside to some CW1308 3-pair using some IDC gel connectors and then run this to my new NTE5 master socket? Or do I need to extend the drop wire, with the same sort of cable as it is formed of, via some connection or other, and connect that directly into my NTE5 socket? Or...something else .

 

[Chri5]

I'd make sure the drop wire to Cw1308 connection is accessable and I'd use a BT81A

 

[c128]

Ahh, thanks. Annoyingly I had thought the way to go was via a 77A box (insides chucked away, I guess, just to house the drop wire to CW1308 via the gel connectors) and so I bought one off Ebay together with some connectors. I didn't know the BT81A existed, but it looks much more appropriate...

Where can you get them from (fleabay throws a dud, unfortunately...)?

 

[Lectrician]

I would use a gutted box and the jellie crimps my self. more reliable.

 

[c128]

That was my original aim...and the connectors and a box are already on the way (like the look of the above though, but an hours googling throws up nothing...).

I've not used these gel crimps before, but I guess they have no issue connecting the thicker dropwire cable with the much thinner wire of the CW1308?

 

[c128]

To put this in context...the drop wire and what's left of the internal the cable are shown below:

Not exactly much to work with . Pulling off one of the greasy connectors and the wires are crimped:

...so I'm assuming I'll trim off below the crimps, making the length even smaller (although I think I can pull in a bit more from outside) but will the gel IDC connectors join a wire as thick as that with the CW1308 wires?

 

[Lectrician]

No, sorry, that dropwire will not work jellies. It is a VERY old FIG-o-8 type drop wire.

Still plenty in service, but long time since they have been installed!

They are at an age where they are very brittle, and cause no ends of problems with crackly lines etc.

I had assumed it was a standard 2 or 3 pair drop wire.

 

[electronicsuk]

If you do ever switch to BT then they might install a new dropwire due to the age of your current installation, in which case you might be better off installing a junction box on an external wall and running a cable to your master socket. Most of the work is done and BT would simply have to bring the new dropwire in through the wall and connect into the JB.

 

[bernardgreen]

There is no guarantee there is a connection possible at the other (pole head) end of the aerial span, it is not unknown for out of service aerial spans to be left in place to avoid the need to drop them if they are crossing a road. The ends are just cut away from the DB at the pole. If that is the case with your wire then any work you do may be wasted if BT put in a underground service wire when you sign up to BT.

 

[c128]

Thanks for the replies - very interesting!

I hadn't realised my cable was so old...but that does explain some of my bemusement when reading other folk talking about their drop-cables as it didn't seem to match-up . The drop-cable itself goes to a pole about 8-metres away that looks like it's serving my direct neighbours and about 10 others. They don't look "snipped" but I guess it's hard to tell... Would BT be likely to replace "like with like" if there were a problem with my cable if the other people are still in service from the same pole?

I think I'd like to tidy-things up regardless and have at least what I have now connected should I decide to switch from NTL... Is an external junction box possible as it would be a far easier job keeping in mind the length of cable I've got to work with anyway i.e. drop-cable into box externally, and then wired from there up through my eaves into the loft (where I do actually want the master socket)? Is that sensible/possible? Would BT re-use that should the drop-wire need replacing?

 

[bernardgreen]

Having the master socket in the loft is NOT sensible. ( unless there is easy access to the loft and access to the master socket ).

Reason is that if there is a fault BT will ask you to got to the master socket and remove the front plate ( to which the internal wiring is connected ) and plug a known good phone into the socket in the back of the master socket. This phone is now connected directly to the BT cable without any interference from the internal wiring. If that phone then does not work then BT accept it is a fault on their wire and can test out to it free of any affects from internal wiring.

 

[c128]

Having the master socket in the loft is NOT sensible. ( unless there is easy access to the loft and access to the master socket )..

Access is dead easy - the top of the loft ladder is the foot of the chimney stack and it will be on there (that's where my NTL socket is). It's reachable without even going to the top of the loft ladder, and the whole roof is boarded anyway... I actually have my cable modem, router and network in the loft on shelves on the chimney stack - so it's actually quite neat and convenient.

 

[c128]

Sorry - sea of tangent questions in what I've put above! I guess basically it sounds like my best approach is to put up an external wall mounted junction box, drop wire into that and then off through that by my own wire into the loft and my new master socket. So...

Do BT use external junction boxes for this sort of thing?
If so, and I do this too, are they likely to reuse it should the drop wire need sorting?
If both of the above are yes, where can I get such a box ?

 

[bernardgreen]

Why bother to do the work yourself.

If you convert back to BT then they will almost certainly do all that is necessary to connect their line to a master socket where you ask them to put it. That work is normally included in the cost of the connection fee.

 

[c128]

...because I already have a master socket, it will be done exactly as I want it when I have time to do it, and this solution provides the potential for moving to BT that is as straightforward and quick as possible, without me having to be present, if the line is already connected and serviceable. So - I don't mind doing this work and will actually enjoy doing it. With that in mind, you sound like a chap with some experience in such things:

Do BT use external junction boxes for this sort of thing?
If so, and I do this too, are they likely to reuse it should the drop wire need sorting?
If both of the above are yes, where can I get such a box?