Extension on top of single brick garage.

[A_Novice]

I'm no expert but we have the same restrictions in our councils planning policy. I.e 1m set back and also 1m in from the side boundary.

Our neighbour got approved to go full width above the garage with a 1.4m set back at the front. The council also insisted on a full hip roof to reduce terracing blah blah.

We followed suit and got a similar design approved. A few months later we noticed another one locally got approved with a 0.5m set back. I decided to reapply (for free) for the same quoting the planning application I had noticed. We got this approved without any difficulty. The width of ours is 3.4m ish.

If I were to do it all again I wouldn't have used an architect for the planning part. I did the second application myself and it isn't rocket science. The council don't care about the internal layout.

I would look online and try to find anything that has been approved where they haven't been made to stick to the policy and then quote this in your application.

 

[mattu27]

Who were you planning on getting to do the planning drawings and submit the planning application forms? (and then later the technical drawings?)


Might be easiest to ask your architect for a quote which will detail what services they would provide.

If you need to appeal - some architects can help with this for a small domestic house but many individuals won't and will instead point you to a planning consultant who will specialise in policy more.

For such a small and simple extension the technical design you would only detail post-planning. I would stop worrying/thinking about it until you get planning. There are so many ways to build such things, and if planning require an amended design then any technical design work could be time wasted. An architect will be thinking about general build-ability whilst drawing up a planning stage drawing, but they won't/shouldn't be detailing it at that stage.

Thabks again, My wife is a design engineer and is auto cad trained she has done some basic plans for the purposes of the initial enquiry which need to be modded. Looking at some of the applications made via our council I don't think we would struggle to replicate the designs we've seen.

With this being the first extension we've ever done the procedures are alien to us, maybe we are best getting an architect to do the plans.

Thansk

 

[Leofric]

Let us know when you finally decide to get an architectural designer to draw some plans !
Regards

 

[mattu27]

Why think of appealing now ? You haven't submitted an application yet let alone had it refused ! Think about getting an architectural designer (architect or architectural technician) to come up with a design that they think stands a good chance of receiving planning approval. Previous post more or less confirms what I said previously regarding procedure, and construction can be specified in more detail for bldg. regs application; but to answer your query a cavity is required behind a brick outer skin which is tied in to the timber frame inner leaf with stainless steel plates. I am repeating the previous post by lt8480 but there are various ways of constructing a timber frame external wall as well as every other part of a building ,but this where the architectural designer comes in, they will specify the whole of the external wall construction.
First thing - a sketch scheme design.

I like your optimism but if we go full width and one brick back at the front the council will be having none of it. If the planning guy I messaged printed off our plans and took it to the review meeting it's on his radar already and he's going to make it personal in getting it rejected. I'm not a pessimist but I know what's going to happen.

The plans can't really deviate much from What we're proposing, stepping it back a brick and leaving it as the sensible width atop the existing structure is what most human beings with any common sense would think of. Just not the jobsworth at planning.

Thanks for your help

 

[mattu27]

I'm no expert but we have the same restrictions in our councils planning policy. I.e 1m set back and also 1m in from the side boundary.

Our neighbour got approved to go full width above the garage with a 1.4m set back at the front. The council also insisted on a full hip roof to reduce terracing blah blah.

We followed suit and got a similar design approved. A few months later we noticed another one locally got approved with a 0.5m set back. I decided to reapply (for free) for the same quoting the planning application I had noticed. We got this approved without any difficulty. The width of ours is 3.4m ish.

If I were to do it all again I wouldn't have used an architect for the planning part. I did the second application myself and it isn't rocket science. The council don't care about the internal layout.

I would look online and try to find anything that has been approved where they haven't been made to stick to the policy and then quote this in your application.

This sounds like what we would like to do. As I said some of the plans I've seen that have been approved on the council's site don't seem like you'd need a degree to produce them. The plans that my beloved has made are only missing dimensions and annotations and they'll be be ample.

3.4m, what was the halfway width of the original house though? Ours would be 3m (halfway width) and the proposed extension is just over 4m but It suits the plot that we're on.

 

[A_Novice]

Thabks again, My wife is a design engineer and is auto cad trained she has done some basic plans for the purposes of the initial enquiry which need to be modded. Looking at some of the applications made via our council I don't think we would struggle to replicate the designs we've seen.

With this being the first extension we've ever done the procedures are alien to us, maybe we are best getting an architect to do the plans.

Thansk

If your wife is a design engineer it's an absolute no brainer to do it yourself and save the money.

There aren't many

I like your optimism but if we go full width and one brick back at the front the council will be having none of it. If the planning guy I messaged printed off our plans and took it to the review meeting it's on his radar already and he's going to make it personal in getting it rejected. I'm not a pessimist but I know what's going to happen.

The plans can't really deviate much from What we're proposing, stepping it back a brick and leaving it as the sensible width atop the existing structure is what most human beings with any common sense would think of. Just not the jobsworth at planning.

Thanks for your help

Our council just wanted to see some sort of visual break between properties. A hip roof and a 0.5 set back was enough to achieve this.

In the past they have also i

This sounds like what we would like to do. As I said some of the plans I've seen that have been approved on the council's site don't seem like you'd need a degree to produce them. The plans that my beloved has made are only missing dimensions and annotations and they'll be be ample.

3.4m, what was the halfway width of the original house though? Ours would be 3m (halfway width) and the proposed extension is just over 4m but It suits the plot that we're on.

Our house is 5.10m full width excluding the attached garage that got built afterwards.

 

[lt8480]

Remember planning policies aren't rules. There has to be inherent flexibility in planning as every site is different. This is written into planning law.

Pre-app advice is always cautious, especially when informal and not paid.

Ultimately you won't get a fixed "reason" until its formally submitted.

Perhaps draw something up, submit it, get the formal reasons for refusal (or it may get approved).

If refused see if you can tweak to satisfy planning and your own requirements and resubmit (you get one free re-go at planning), or otherwise appeal it.

You could also submit a "safer option", bank the approval, then submit a second application (again you get one free re-go). You can then always appeal the second app knowing you still have the first one approved.

 

[Leofric]

As a matter of interest what are you intending to do, you have lost me on this one ?
With respect to others comments ,all the rigmarole of submitting an application half expecting it to be refused, submitting a second application , possibly going to appeal etc etc shouldn't be necessary for a house extension.

I have made numerous planning applications for house extensions without one refusal.​

My advice would be to engage an architect or architectural technician to prepare the plans according to your requirements and advise what they think is likely to get planning permission. You then should end up with a good design and some character and hopefully not have a planning refusal for your property on the record.

 

[mattu27]

Just to update, we got planning permission after submitting the plans that my better half drew up on AutoCAD with minimal fuss.

There were some comments about the width looking out of proportion on the permission form but nothing major.

We're currently drawing up the building regulations plans and have got them almost ready. We have contacted some structural engineers for quotes on designing the RSJ's for the extension and the new roof structure.

Plan is to build out/reinforce the piers either in brickwork or steel from the foundation up, and then put steelwork along the entire 8m of the extension to support the new inner course.
This will then support another 2 pairs of RSJ's at the front and rear of the existing property to support the new brickwork.

For the new hip roof, I'm guessing we may possibly need trusses. The original roof is supported by purlins at about half way with additional brickwork underneath them onto the internal walls of the house.

From what I could gather from the TRADA tables a span of over 4m to mid point would need some substantial timberwork and potentially another RSJ to support the middle of the roof, considering that the internal walls won't be in brickwork this time.

Any help on this would be great as we would like to avoid paying for trusses if we don't need them.

We've had quotes ranging from £500 upto £1400 from the structural engineers.

Thanks, Matt

 

[lt8480]

Any help on this would be great as we would like to avoid paying for trusses if we don't need them.

The appointed SE should tell you this. If they can't they shouldn't be doing the job.