External Emergency Lights

[padsterlad]

Hey there,
I need to add some emergency lights above a fire exit outside the building.There is already an emergency lighting circuit inside the building which runs near the exit.I was wondering would it be as simple as extending the circuit to go outside using 1.5mm 3 core flex or would i have to add an rcd between ? or would i have to have a completly seperate circuit altogeter?

Please help me

thanks guys

 

[holmslaw]

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[padsterlad]

That implies a central battery system and a dc circuit, so whatever is done must tie into the existing.

Also if you require an external emergency light you will also require normal switched lighting.

Yes they probably do have a battery system not to sure untill i look properly but they are non-maintained.
why would it require normal switched light as well? Its only used a fire exit ?

 

[padsterlad]

so do i just wire it straight in to the existing circuit guys or not???

 

[holmslaw]

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[padsterlad]

okie thanks my mate
so with everything else i should be ok?

 

[holmslaw]

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[padsterlad]

okie so if flex is not suitable what is ?S.W.A?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The type of cable, and the way to wire the lights, which are suitable are the ones chosen by the competent electrician doing the job.

Which is not you.

I don't know what kind of fool has asked you to do it, but please show that you have more sense than they do and decline on the grounds that you are not competent.

 

[ericmark]

It is easy to mess up when doing a job of this type. I would want to tie into the risk assessment which has been done to say they are required in the first place.

One place I worked was lit by street lamps and after a power cut at night it was realised people could not safely leave the building and find their cars so we fitted external emergency lamps just to cover should that happen again.

Of course this presents a problem as the street lamps may fail without there also being a failure of the factory supply.

We did a risk assessment and realised in that case there would be light from the factory even if it required the vehicle roller shutter doors to be opened and the problem had only happened once in 3 years. Also people arrived in daylight and left in daylight in the main it was only during a whole area power failure there was a real problem.

So it was just a case of taking a convenient supply through a key switch so they can be tested to the outside emergency lamps.

But the whole point is we documented the perceived risk and our solution so in the future we could show it to anyone who questioned why they were wired that way.

As to flex outside again one has to consider what protection is offered. Where there is some protection from the elements it may be acceptable and a plastic stuffing gland may seal better on a plastic fitting than a SWA gland. However if it is exposed then it may require more protection and a metal fitting and glass hood may be called for. Again look at the risk and assess what it really required.

Each person will tend to consider what will be required where they work rather than what you need as we have no idea as to what your building is like.

With insurance today we have to be very careful what we do. Although trained as an electrician I have been in jobs where that was not my job title so although I had the knowledge and ability to do electrical work I was not permitted to work on it as insurance would not cover. I had to employ an outside contractor to do the work. Do be careful and do ensure you are permitted to do the work.

 

[padsterlad]

im an apprentice leky my mentor left please dont ask its complicated.im not completely incompetent i have just recently put all new lighting up in the building over 60 6ft daylight fittings . my boss asked me to do this . its a learning curve keep asking until i get the correct answer .my mums fella is an electrical engineer will ask him but that will be tonite and i need the advice now.(no doubt its gunna get personal now)Would just be greatful if somone could stear me in the right dirrection.
so basically i have to take a supply off the emergency lights straight to the new external emergency light and a seperate supply with the live wired to a switch to a normal external light.
or could i use a 5 core cable wire the 2 lives into the existing emergency light one going to a switch which goes to a normal external light one straight to the emergency light.and also wire the 2 neutrals back to the existing?

 

[padsterlad]

well basically the fire exit opens up into a ginnel which leads to the main road where the fire muster point is. the ginnel has no illumination and when the fire inspectors or what nott came they said this is what is required. i am still a bit blagged why i would need a normal external light there when it is only ever used in case of emergency.is this an actuall regulation if so i could find it in my wiring regulations 17th edition.
Otherwise i would rather just keep it to what is necessary rather than going all out.

 

[Spark123]

You need normal lighting as emergency lights (Non maintained) only come on in the event of power failure. If the place was burning down you would have to wait for the supply cable to burn through before the emergency lights come on thus illuminating your exit route. You may get away with maintained/sustained units.

Firstly you need to know wether or not you have a central battery system. Additions to these types of system need to be carried out using cable with some fire retardant such as FP200 or pyro. There are also rules on how the cables are mounted.

On the other hand if the system is just self contained units (usually given away by a red or green LED in the units) then the emergency light needs to be fed from the same circuit as the outside lighting so if this fails the em light comes on. You can use normal cables suitable for the environment for self contained units.

 

[holmslaw]

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[padsterlad]

On the other hand if the system is just self contained units (usually given away by a red or green LED in the units) then the emergency light needs to be fed from the same circuit as the outside lighting so if this fails the em light comes on. You can use normal cables suitable for the environment for self contained units.

yes the existing em lights all have red LEDS so this means that the battery is in the unit itself?
But if this is so, does that not mean if i wired the external em light off the normall outside light,then the normal outside light would have to be permantly on so it stays charged.Plus at night all the electricity is switched off would that not trigger the em light and flatten the battery?.whereas the existing em system is on a permanent supply.