Fan installation problem - who provides the guarantee

[Johnmelad]

Luckily (or not) in my case the extractor fan always made this odd rattle so I think it was always like this.

Your problem is how to establish fault. Is the noise due to incorrect installation (inc damage to said item by contractor) or is the item faulty due to manufacture?

In your case, as you have not paid the bill yet, get the contractor back and negotiate a deal.

If the contractor will not be reasonable, get another contractor to remove and replace faulty fan, and deduct the cost from outstanding invoice. Just pay the difference.

But you must give the original contractor a chance to do the right thing first.

 

[Johnmelad]

If the fault is due to the installation not being done correctly, the contractor must remove faulty item and replace, free of charge. If it goes wrong after installation due to a manufacturing fault, then the removal of said item, and it's replacement must be paid for by the customer.

If considerable work/cost is involved in the removal/replacement, could the manufacturer be successfully sued for those costs, if they became necessary because of an unreasonably early failure of their product?

Kind Regards, John

Seek legal advice.

 

[skotl]

If the fault is due to the installation not being done correctly, the contractor must remove faulty item and replace, free of charge. If it goes wrong after installation due to a manufacturing fault, then the removal of said item, and it's replacement must be paid for by the customer.

If considerable work/cost is involved in the removal/replacement, could the manufacturer be successfully sued for those costs, if they became necessary because of an unreasonably early failure of their product?

Kind Regards, John

I'm sure they could, but that sounds like a debate between the contractor and the manufacturer.
Putting yourself in the shoes of the consumer for a second, he bought and paid for a service, which included some goods; why would he expect to pay for the service provider to put right a failed unit that the service provider supplied?

Your earlier comment about manufacturers paying contractors for warranty repairs is apposite; when your car has a problem during warranty you don't expect to pay the dealer a penny to resolve it. However (and I see the anomaly here) the dealer is compensated for his time by the manufacturer.

As I said earlier, reasonableness and compromise should be the order of the day but I suspect that the small claims court would side with the consumer if a compromise could not be reached. Back to your point, I think it would be interesting to see whether the contractor could then reclaim the costs from the manufacturer...

Any real-life examples of similar situations that anyone can chip in with?

 

[sparkwright]

Could well be an installation fault, for example the blade catching on the flexi-duct (if it is flexi-duct).

 

[thomaspassmore]

Luckily (or not) in my case the extractor fan always made this odd rattle so I think it was always like this.

IF it's accepted that the rattle reprsesents a fault, and IF the person who fitted it will admit that it has always rattled,

Well I have two of them and one rattles and the other doesnt, and the burden of proof is on the retailer to prove that it was working when installed (which I suspect is nigh on impossible for them to do). If they cannot prove it is is assumed it was broken (which i believe to be the truth)

 

[JohnW2]

Seek legal advice.

I have a number of sources of that within the family - I'll ask one when the opportunity arises!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Well I have two of them and one rattles and the other doesnt, and the burden of proof is on the retailer to prove that it was working when installed (which I suspect is nigh on impossible for them to do). If they cannot prove it is is assumed it was broken (which i believe to be the truth)

As I said, IF this rattle is accepted as indicating a fault ('broken'). I obvioulsy don't know what it sounds like, but could you not find yourself facing a claim that "some rattle more than others, but they all work satisfactorily", or something like that?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Johnmelad]

Seek legal advice.

I have a number of sources of that within the family - I'll ask one when the opportunity arises!

Kind Regards, John

Let us know what they say.

 

[Johnmelad]

Thought...

Did the contractor offer a guarantee? If so I am afraid it is down to him to put it right and take up compensation with the manufacturer.

If no guarantee...

 

[JohnW2]

Putting yourself in the shoes of the consumer for a second, he bought and paid for a service, which included some goods; why would he expect to pay for the service provider to put right a failed unit that the service provider supplied?
Your earlier comment about manufacturers paying contractors for warranty repairs is apposite; when your car has a problem during warranty you don't expect to pay the dealer a penny to resolve it. However (and I see the anomaly here) the dealer is compensated for his time by the manufacturer.

That's the point, isn't it - whether you put yourself in the shoes of the consumer or the shoes of the car dealer (or electrician, or...), it really isn't reasonable for one to end up out-of-pocket because a manufacturer's product has failed 'unreasonably early'. Common sense, 'natural justice', 'decency' or whatever you call it would suggest that the manufacturer should bear all the costs in such cases, wouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Adam_151]

While in some cases, particularly where it is clear cut that the item failed too quickly and the costs in righting it are unusually high (access equipment required) then it may be worthwhile badgering the wholesaler to foot the bill (who will then attempt to pass it back up the chain). Works best if you do a lot of business with that wholesaler and they do a lot of business with say that lighting supplier for example.

For the smaller issues, perhaps some of the percentage you add on to materials should be counted as an insurance/buffering fund against faulty equipment. If too much is being eaten away with warranty work then perhaps its time to change brands!

 

[JohnW2]

While in some cases, particularly where it is clear cut that the item failed too quickly and the costs in righting it are unusually high (access equipment required) then it may be worthwhile badgering the wholesaler to foot the bill (who will then attempt to pass it back up the chain). Works best if you do a lot of business with that wholesaler and they do a lot of business with say that lighting supplier for example.

That's all true, but I was really talking about the legal situation. The Supply of Goods and Services Act certainly includes provision for compensation for 'consequential loss' (as well as repair/ replacement/ refund of a product which is, say, 'unfit for purpose'), and I would imagine (but do know) that labour costs associated with replacement might well qualify as such a 'consequential loss'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[skotl]

That's my take on it, John. I suspect, too, that the Sale of Goods Act (or Sales of Goods and Services Act, in this case) would tend to favour the consumer.

The trades folks involved (contractor, supplier, manufacturer) would need to resort to contract law. Be interesting to hear what your legal-representative relatives say. (I had originally written "legal relatives", but that has a completely different connotation )

By the way, I find this all interesting but I'm only a consumer - not a lawyer or in the trade.
At work I am very much bound by the 50-100 page legal agreements that we sign with both suppliers and (commercial) customers. In some ways, that works better than the kinds of scenarios discussed here. On the other hand there tends to be waaaaaaaay less discretion on handling changes, etc....

 

[securespark]

If the fault is due to the installation not being done correctly, the contractor must remove faulty item and replace, free of charge.

If it goes wrong after installation due to a manufacturing fault, then the removal of said item, and it's replacement must be paid for by the customer.

No.

I have been wholly successful, on more than one occasion, in claiming a refund from a manufacturer for a revisit due to faulty goods.

Especially when I explained to the manufacturer that the reason I chose their product was because of their supposed reputation for reliability and sold the product to the customer on this basis.

Try it.

 

[JohnW2]

That's my take on it, John. I suspect, too, that the Sale of Goods Act (or Sales of Goods and Services Act, in this case) would tend to favour the consumer. The trades folks involved (contractor, supplier, manufacturer) would need to resort to contract law. Be interesting to hear what your legal-representative relatives say. (I had originally written "legal relatives", but that has a completely different connotation )

I guess that they are probably both, and I'll let you know if I get anything useful out of them![/quote]

Kind Regards, John