FAO ecowarrior etc. How did I do?

[RF Lighting]

Here's a system I have just installed today.

I'd like you to design the circuit(s) and then we can compare notes.

System is a ~60kW Vaillant ecotech condensing boiler in a large domestic property.

This supplies 3 heating zones and a 200l DHW cylinder.

The boiler and the pumps are in the cellar.

The DHW is cotrolled by channel 1 of a four channel programmer, a 2 port zone valve and a cylinder stat all in the cylinder cupboard in the first floor bathroom. The pump is in the cellar for the DHW.

Each of the heating zones is controlled from channels 2-4 on the programmer which is in the bathroom cylinder cupboard via a room stat which is not yet wired, so can be wired to where ever you prefer.

There are no zone valves for the heating.

Any other info you think I've missed, please let me know.

 

[Biggles..]

Where are the pumps for the heating as it MUST be piped from a low loss header.
Have you got one pump for all 3 heating zones or 1 for each.

What's the boiler, does it have an inbuilt pump acting as the shunt.

Why not throw all your cheap controls in the bin and do it properly

View media item 18024

 

[ricicle]

Simplicity is genius.

 

[ecowarrior]

Yes I was going to ask about headers & shunt pumps. I am not a Valliant man - but having fixed plenty - I have no idea if it will control hot water?

i dont think it gets much simpler than Lees diagram - Certainly the time for using one manu's kit all the way thru.

 

[ebee]

Reminds me (a bit ) of something I got tied up with a few years back 2004/5 at our local clown hall.

3 boilers and integral pumps each circulating into a big bore loop with its own pump and four take offs (& returns) to different heating zones each having their own pumps too. The boilers were controlled by a sequencer (3rd boiler never called it was just a spare in case one of the other two were down).

All the heating zones had sensors in the return only (took me a while to get me head around that). Outside temp sensors for each of the zones plus one for the sequencer. All ELV. I built the boiler controllers and isolators into a big steel cabinet which was able to be locked and put some LEDs on the doors to show zone valves open/closed/opening/closing.

Quite an interesting project.

I won my argument with the heating engineer that surely the loop would require a pump far bigger then the individual zone and boiler pumps.

 

[Biggles..]

Why fit 3 heating zones and no way to control them individually via either individual pump/zone valve?
One room stat, is it one big open plan space.

Obviously you could use hi and low limit stats to control each zone but that's not great.

Spose it's easy to wire as a multiple zone based on an s plan, cylinder pump and 2 port controlled through the cylinder stat and oh stat if it's unvented ( you haven't said)
Boiler pump could be done through return water sensing on the header(must have a header if it's a Vaillant)

Lack of info on hydraulic layout means you won't get a decent answer without second guessing lots of bits.

 

[gaswizzard]

I won my argument with the heating engineer that surely the loop would require a pump far bigger then the individual zone and boiler pumps.

You say you won this argument?

 

[matt1e]

I won my argument with the heating engineer that surely the loop would require a pump far bigger then the individual zone and boiler pumps.

You say you won this argument?

and what did the system designer have to say about you re-specifying the shunt pump?

 

[RF Lighting]

Where are the pumps for the heating as it MUST be piped from a low loss header.
Have you got one pump for all 3 heating zones or 1 for each.

What's the boiler, does it have an inbuilt pump acting as the shunt.

Why not throw all your cheap controls in the bin and do it properly

View media item 18024

Yes there's a low loss header. There is a pump inside the boiler as well as one per heating zone and one for the DHW. These are all in the cellar.

I am only installing the parts I was supplied by the plumber.

Why is a boiler management syatem better than a programmer and room stat? How much do they cost?

 

[RF Lighting]

Here's the plumbing layout if that helps?

 

[Dan Robinson]

A nice effort there. Not sure about the choice of system pumps though .

A panel full of relays would be easy enough to knock up, although I know a sneaky little product that would see that lot wired in a couple of hours albeit the weather comp wouldn't work for a cylinder.

That would be something I need to look up (don't play with Vaillant often thankfully ).

 

[gaswizzard]

Gonns be a PITA to insulate. , fair play for the pulled bends.

 

[RF Lighting]

A nice effort there. Not sure about the choice of system pumps though .

A panel full of relays would be easy enough to knock up, although I know a sneaky little product that would see that lot wired in a couple of hours albeit the weather comp wouldn't work for a cylinder.

That would be something I need to look up (don't play with Vaillant often thankfully ).

What's the product? I went with the relays

 

[Dan Robinson]

'Tis why I only use Munsens now.

 

[matt1e]

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Why is a boiler management system better than a programmer and room stat? How much do they cost?

Because a good management controller will constantly monitor the outside temperture, indoor sensor(s), cylinder sensor,circuit flow temps common flow temp, and sequence/modulate the boilers and mixing valves to suit differing demands, it will also offer automatic changeover of lead and lag boilers (equalise wear and tear) and adapt if one goes down. they will also offer optimised/compensated zones and intergrate with BMS

I don't deal much with the domestic ones but they will certainly cost a fair bit more than a stat/programmer the comercial ones we use are round about £700 for a stand alone unit

Matt