Fatally Flawed - an E-Petition

[JohnW2]

MK patented something similar back in 1932, GB patent number: 365275. However, we are wandering OT again!

We are,indeed, and I acknowledged that when I wrote;

It isn't going to happen, and we have as yet seen no hard evidence that it needs to happen, but if it did...

The BS 1363 socket is safe providing that it is not interfered with by inserting inappropriately dimensioned plug like objects into it. The suggested locking socket would not help to solve that issue.

Well, remaining OT, that would depend upon how it was engineered. If the functionality was such that the power could not be switched on (hence L pin live) unless all three correct-length pins were fully inserted, that would surely overcome most/all of any 'immediate' safety concerns - and I would also think that the sort of mechanism I am talking about could be made pretty immune to damage (affecting functionality) due to the insertion of inappropriately dimensioned objects.

Regulation of incorrectly sized plugs and socket covers is a realistic objective which is achievable. All it needs is a government who wish to improve safety.

... and a Standard which that government can make mandatory by legislation. With that proviso, I totally agree with you.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If the functionality was such that the power could not be switched on (hence L pin live) unless all three correct-length pins were fully inserted, that would surely overcome most/all of any 'immediate' safety concerns

You have a socket.

You do not want it to be turned on unless there is a plug in it.

You make it work like that, but don't prevent the plug being removed with the power on.

So you put the plug in, turn on the power, remove the plug.

You now have a socket switched on without a plug being in it, which is what you don't want.


Which of us is losing the plot?

 

[JohnW2]

You have a socket. You do not want it to be turned on unless there is a plug in it.

That would be one form (probably a near-deal form) of the functional logic, but it's not quite what I was thinking of. Perhaps because I realised that it would probably be easier to engineeer, I was thinking more of "You don't want a plug (or anything else) to be able to to be inserted unless the switch is turned off" coupled with "You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted".

Which of us is losing the plot?

Neither. As above, we're talking about different things.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

...Perhaps because I realised that it would probably be easier to engineeer, I was thinking more of "You don't want a plug (or anything else) to be able to to be inserted unless the switch is turned off" coupled with "You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted".

Another strategy to satisfy BAS's functionality, although probably much more difficult to engineer satisfactorily, would be for the switch to automatically move to the 'off' position (if it were 'on') when a plug (or anything else that 'fitted') was removed (coupled with switch only movable to 'on' position when a plug was fully inserted).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Neither. As above, we're talking about different things.

OK - in that case:

You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted

Why do you not want that?

 

[JohnW2]

You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted

Why do you not want that?

I didn't say I didn't 'want it', and I have acknowledged that such probably would be the ideal. What I said is that I was not thinking of that, probably because I realised that it would be much more difficult to engineer - as you have pointed out yourself, that functionality is no use unless it is impossible to remove a plug whilst the switch is on (which requires some sort of strong clamping or locking mechanism).

Kind Regards, John

 

[FatallyFlawed]

Another strategy to satisfy BAS's functionality, although probably much more difficult to engineer satisfactorily, would be for the switch to automatically move to the 'off' position (if it were 'on') when a plug (or anything else that 'fitted') was removed (coupled with switch only movable to 'on' position when a plug was fully inserted).

In the 1932 patent I mentioned earlier, GB 365275, it is not possible to either insert or remove the plug unless the switch is off.

 

[JohnW2]

In the 1932 patent I mentioned earlier, GB 365275, it is not possible to either insert or remove the plug unless the switch is off.

As I understand it, that is effectively what BAS is proposing - or, at least, the only way that the functionality he's talking about could be achieved.

However, as before, this discussion is about something which isn't going to happen (certainly not in any decade soon) and isn't needed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I didn't say I didn't 'want it',

Aaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh!!!!!!

You did say that!

Perhaps because I realised that it would probably be easier to engineeer, I was thinking more of "You don't want a plug (or anything else) to be able to to be inserted unless the switch is turned off" coupled with "You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted".

 

[JohnW2]

I didn't say I didn't 'want it',

Aaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh!!!!!! You did say that!

Perhaps because I realised that it would probably be easier to engineeer, I was thinking more of "You don't want a plug (or anything else) to be able to to be inserted unless the switch is turned off" coupled with "You don't want the switch to be able to be moved from 'off' to 'on' position unless (all three correct length pins of) a plug (or something) is fully inserted".

Apologies, I was getting myself confused with all these double and treble negatives and there is confusion regarding the identity of 'You' and 'I' !

However, the reason I was 'thinking about' that statement as a specification of functionality was because this all started when Simon postulated hypothetical sockets which "only energised a few seconds after a correctly coded plug is inserted". One could, of course, have something else doing that 'energising', but I thought it worth postulating a system in which the existing functional switch, with interlocks, could prevent the plug being energised until an appropriate plug (or whatever) was fully inserted.

Kind Regards, John

 

[johno12345]

I haev just passed this onto another forum i use now its reminded me.

i dont think we really need to improve on MKs latest design, people just need to check their sockets as the shutters do get stuck on the old ones

 

[JohnW2]

i dont think we really need to improve on MKs latest design ...

I'm sure we don't - and even their previous design, and most other manufacturers designs, have served us very well for several decades.

Kind Regards, John