FCU's and power sockets

[600rob]

My kitchen several has under worktop/in cabinet non switched power sockets for appliances etc.

Above the worktop, each of the power sockets can be switched on an off by a switched FCU.

The switches indicated in this picture illustrate this:

Sockets

• 600rob
• 6 Jan 2018

The previous owner has had loads of switches configured this way in a couple of places and it looks a bit of a mess so id like to tidy it up and have less visible wall mounted kit before retiling.....

DSC_1334

• 600rob
• 6 Jan 2018

Before i retile and refit the kitchen i want to know if it's possible to do the following

1- remove the switched FCU, join the load and supply using a choc box then blank off.
2- replace the under work top sockets with switched sockets
3- tile over the blanked off areas. (or fit blanking plates over the tiles in case i need access/maintenance in future)

can you guys provide some advice on if this is a feasible solution or the best alternative approach?

p.s id have about 5 or 6 of these to do

Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

1- remove the switched FCU and blank off

You would need to join the cables with a suitable method for hidden joints because of 3

2- replace the under work top sockets with switched sockets

Yes, if you want switched sockets.

3- tile over the blanked off FCU's

If you follow 1.

It would probably be just as well to re wire the parts concerned.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The FCUs may be removed if they are not there because the spurs need to be fused.

You may tile over it if that does not create problems with concealed cables and no "safe zones" for them, and if you use a maintenance free connection method to join any cables.

https://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

I would not consider that accessories you cannot see create safe zones.

 

[600rob]

You would need to join the cables with a suitable method for hidden joints because of 3

Thanks, for the reply. Can you recommend the most suitable/correct joining method?
i was thinking along the lines of some sort of maintenance free junction box box

 

[EFLImpudence]

I prefer soldering, but that seems to have gone out of fashion.
MF junction boxes are allowed.

As mentioned above you will have to comply with the cable zones with tha accessories concealed.

Install a couple of sockets in the appropriate place and cable joints and routes become easy.

 

[JohnW2]

The FCUs may be removed if they are not there because the spurs need to be fused.

Ondeed. However, if, as I understand it, each FCU feeds just one (single) socket, then I cannot think of any situation in which "the spur would need to be fused".

Even if the spur were (non-compliantly) a spur from a spur of a ring final, the fuse in the FCU would not make things any better.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Diver Fred]

Well I know every one is different but apart from the sockets and switches are rather close to the worktop I like the idea. 'Tis a quick means of depowering the appliances. Tidy them up and leave them...

 

[JohnW2]

Well I know every one is different but apart from the sockets and switches are rather close to the worktop I like the idea. 'Tis a quick means of depowering the appliances. Tidy them up and leave them...

I wasn't intending to comment on the idea of having switches there (feeding unswitched sockets for the appliances) - which, as you indicate, many people like to have (although not 'required').

My (and BAS's) point was that, if it is feeding just one socket, then there is no point in having an FCU (since there will be a fuse in the appliance's plug) - it could just be a double-pole switch. A common 'tidier' version than having lots of 'big' switches is to have multiple grid switches on a single plate - but that requires even more effort/issues in relation to the routing of cables.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jg321]

And in my opinion worth thinking "when would I ever need to isolate the washing machine if I wasn't pulling it out anyway".

I've lived in a few flats over the past 10 years or so, some of which did have the grid switch arrangements. I didn't at all find them useful, and in fact they were a nuisance when you knocked the off accidentally then thought the washing machine or cooker hood was broken. In my house now we have no switch above the worktop, and even when the washing machine broke in November, the lack of a switch was no consequence as I had to pull the machine out anyway. If it goes on fire or some such, and I need to isolate it, I'll just go to the CU and turn it off there, which, at least in my case, is safer than going anywhere near the thing if there is a genuine emergency requiring isolation.

As you can probably gather from the above, my preference would be to safely, subject to cables in safe zones, get rid of the above worktop switches altogether. You're all welcome to have other opinions in your own houses of course.

 

[JohnW2]

And in my opinion worth thinking "when would I ever need to isolate the washing machine if I wasn't pulling it out anyway".

Agreed. I suppose it depends upon who one is. Elderly people, for example, might not be able to pull it out, so could use a DP isolator to enable them to use other things on the circuit(s) concerned (until someone came to pull out the appliance) in the event that a fault (particularly a N-E one) in the appliance was tripping an RCD, even when it was 'off'.

I've lived in a few flats over the past 10 years or so, some of which did have the grid switch arrangements. I didn't at all find them useful .... As you can probably gather from the above, my preference would be to safely, subject to cables in safe zones, get rid of the above worktop switches altogether. You're all welcome to have other opinions in your own houses of course.

I share your opinion as far as my own house is concerned, but I accept that, for whatever reasons, a lot of people seem to favour having local, accessible, switches.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jg321]

Elderly people, for example, might not be able to pull it out, so could use a DP isolator to enable them to use other things on the circuit(s) concerned (until someone came to pull out the appliance) in the event that a fault (particularly a N-E one) in the appliance was tripping an RCD, even when it was 'off'.

That is a very valid concern - and one that I'd not thought of!

 

[JohnW2]

That is a very valid concern - and one that I'd not thought of!

It's a bit similar to manufacturer's 'requirement' for 3-pole isolators for extractor fans, which many/most people think are probably unnecessary (and certainly not required by regs)....

... the argument that it is 'necessary' to have an isolator so that work can be done on a fan without having to kill the lighting in the room is a bit pathetic (if one was working on the lighting itself, one would have no choice!). However, for people who can't deal with a fan fault themselves, having an isolator does mean that, if something happens that requires the fan to be de-powered, they can do that, and retain their lighting, whilst waiting (for however long!) for someone to come and sort out the fan. I suppose a similar argument applies to the majority of hard-wired things (unless they are on dedicated circuits, with their own RCBO or no RCD protection).

Kind Regards, John

 

[600rob]

I prefer soldering, but that seems to have gone out of fashion.
MF junction boxes are allowed.

I didnt even realising soldering was a valid/acceptable method thanks for suggesting!

However, if, as I understand it, each FCU feeds just one (single) socket, then I cannot think of any situation in which "the spur would need to be fused".

Thats correct each FCU feeds a single socket


Cheers for all the responses folks...most appreciated!
Just need to decide on the best approach for me now.

 

[JohnW2]

Thats correct each FCU feeds a single socket

In that case, as I said (expanding BAS's point) you could, if you wanted to retain a local means of switching, replace the FCUs with DP switches - which you might consider to be an aesthetic improvement.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

And in my opinion worth thinking "when would I ever need to isolate the washing machine if I wasn't pulling it out anyway".

I thought of another reason the other day while repeatedly saying "No" to grandsprog who's now reached the stage of being able to reach all those interesting buttons and switches