'Fence-ographics' and installation pedants.

[Northbeach]

Hi,

I'm just about to take on an installation of a fence dividing my property with the neighbours (nothing personal mind, though I find their pets footwear a little uncouth at times ).

I have google thwacked and search doctored till my eyes grown thorns, but I cannot pin point the advice I need - DIY search returns for some reason bring up mid west USA 'business' which rarely translates well for UK requirements.

Basically....I need to install a wooden fence along an approx 25m length (pretty much a straight route);

* I will follow on the pattern from the back garden (installed by pro's a couple of years back) i.e. concrete posts and concrete gravel boards.
* The first panel will be 5 foot, the second slanting down to 3 foot the size of which will continue down the length of the fencing.

Aside from concrete/sand/few bits of gravel for the posts to secure into is there anything I should be looking out for which might send one of the aforementioned posts through the neighbours window should things not go to plan (as they rarely do!).

Bit of a 'wasp in the hummus' in that a large root from a giant silver birch fall directly through the path; I have thought of combatting this by grinding an arch on the concrete gravel board which will fall upon this.

Many thanks in anticipation.
NB.

 

[Big G]

Bit of a 'wasp in the hummus' in that a large root from a giant silver birch fall directly through the path; I have thought of combatting this by grinding an arch on the concrete gravel board which will fall upon this.
NB.

Having just taken out a rickety panel fence with 8 or 12 inch concrete gravel boards, I can advise that the ones that I had were re-enforced with steel along the edges. Not sure if this will scupper your plans somewhat.


G

 

[Northbeach]

^^^ Hmm, it may do Big G - there is always a loose alan key in the moulinex blender!

With that in mind, how would I steer around this root issue (with lopping the sod off thereby murderising a 100 year old tree?
...plus any other potential pit falls to look out for (linkies would do).

Cheers.
NB

 

[Thermo]

cut a notch in the board with a diamond cutter. it will do the job no problem, but if its more than a third of the width of the board it will weaken it

 

[Northbeach]

Thanks Thermo - I don't expect it to be more than a third of the gravel board so I should be ok.

I've actually started taking out the existing concrete posts - absolute nightmare - possibly embedded in the 'olden days' they're concreted (reinforced with satan's bolders by the look of it) - taken hours to chip away with mallet and 'chisel thingy' (my hands resemble Nick Nolte's breakfast manner) - I have 4 more to take out but it's quite frankly ridiculous...I'm thinking for the other 4 I should somehow try and lop them at the base using either a large sledgehammer or angle grind them off (the existing posts are constructed from pebbly concrete with metal wire reinforcements).
I'll make sure that the post bases do not conincide with the new holes I'll be digging for the new posts and concrete.
Still a little unsure as to how deep the bases should be...any online guides could be pointed my way would be very helpful.

Thanks.
NB

 

[Thermo]

dont dig them out, just cut them off with a stihl saw. You should be looking to get the posts in at least a foot deep

 

[Northbeach]

Cheers Thermo; is Stihl a brand though? Had a quick look around the intra-wap and it returns types of saws by Stihl - is it a diamond/chainsaw for concrete?

Not practical for me to to fork out on such a saw, but there may be problems hiring one? Hire stores are a little cornered by safety laws and insurance issues these days - unless the saw you refer to is like a daddy version of the tile cutter?

Cheers.
NB

 

[Northbeach]

Actually I may have sourced a grinder from a neighbour (depending on discs will cut through metal and concrete).

Ta.

 

[Thermo]

stihl saw/ angle grinder etc etc all will do the job. Stone discs are cheap to use but will wear out quite quickly. A diamond disc would be better. But as long as you havnt got to much cutting to do then go for the cheaper stone cutting discs. theyll go through the reinforcemnet in the posts. Be carful when you cut them as they can kick back sometimes if you catch the reinforcement wrong. For akward ones i cut them a few inches above the grund and then smash the tops with a sledge hammer. You can then trim the reinforcement bars easily

 

[JohnD]

If you ever want to take out a post set in concrete, tug the post over. It will give you 6' of leverage on the lump underneath.

You might have to use some pegs and a block and tackle, or a chain winch.

Once you have rotated the lump out of place you can break it up into manageable pieces.

 

[Big G]

Have you thought of the following?

For your gravel board – why not make one out of wood. Preserve it well – it won’t last as long as concrete but you’ll be able to change it in ten years when it’s finally given up on you. Not sure how easy it is to lift a 6’ panel out of a slide in system – especially is you’ve got a tree above it but it may be worth a try.

Also, not sure how easy it is to cut through the metal re-enforcement with a hack saw but – do you own an SDS drill. If not, and you do some DIY – buy one now. They’re sooo good, I bought my Granny one for Christmas – she loves it! Got mine (a cheap 6 kg job) off Screwfix for about £40 and £15 got me three chisels and about 8 drill bits. Old, soft concrete can simply be chiselled away. If you’re levelling a post below ground, you could drill it, then chisel it (just be careful though, those concrete posts are heavy). Once the re-enforcement is exposed, hack it with a hack saw. As mentioned, not sure if the steel is hardened though.

I was lucky with my concrete posts. Pulling and pushing dislodged the post plus concrete from the ground. Because of the terrain, I was then able to lever the post out, chip the concrete block off and then dispose of in the skip. The weight of the post plus me plus concrete at bottom of post was heavy enough to crack a 2” raft of concrete – beware!

If you do get a drill, you’ll need ear defenders and goggles. Also, in chisel mode, don’t do what I’m sure every one does when they first buy one. Point it at something solid, press the trigger and bury the drill bit right up the chuck.


Cheers and good luck. Keep us posted (pun intended).

Gordon

 

[Northbeach]

So this SDS drill isn't the same as the standard drill? And it used for mechanical chiselling? Sounds quite handy (and linkies?).

The first branch of the tree is way up high so should easily be able to extract the panel (I'll nip over to the wood section for advice on preserving this which will be half buried in soil).

Unfortunately the existing posts are only about 3 foot from ground level (poss 4 foot in total); as such you cannot get any leverage on them at all - god I've tried!
Fortunately the concrete is a little 'ill' - solid in parts but almost crumbling in others (the old style pebble and concrete posts).
Going to bash at the base later on today then hopefully the neighbours grinder should finish off the trick. Of the posts I've already taken out, the metal reinforcements were pretty tame and snapped with a coupld of twists.

I have mildish tinnitus as it happens so ear protectors are a must to prevent further damage!

So...
*I'll measure the total distance and purchase the pannelling and concrete posts and panels.
Use string to keep the line straight from one end to the other (around 20 metres).
*Dig the posts in around a foot deep with concrete and pebbles/stones.

Anything else I should be looking out for?

Many thanks for the help so far folks.

NB.

 

[Big G]

So this SDS drill isn't the same as the standard drill? And it used for mechanical chiselling? Sounds quite handy (and linkies?).

Off topic a bit

Not sure what the initials SDS stand for – STOP PRESS, just Googled and it said “Special Direct System”.

Anyhow, if you buy one, it must have rotary stop on it. This means you can use it in chisel mode. Rotation speed under normal use is slow, about 800 rpm. Impact rate is high though – around 3000 bpm. The drill bits also have a keyed end so that they won’t rotate within the ‘chuck’. They also slide in the chuck by about an inch. And the drill bits are quick release.

Mine has two dials on it to change settings. One dial changes from hammer plus drill to drill only. The other is rotate/don’t rotate. This means you can use it in hammer only mode, hammer and drill mode, drill only mode and presumably no drill and no hammer mode – I’ve never tried the last two settings.

£100+ will buy you one that looks more like a normal drill. For less than £50 you can get a monster that is heavy – and probably not as good to work with as a lightweight model. This is the type I’ve got – cuts through bricks like a hot knife through dusty butter.

I bought mine when I was installing the waste pipe for the dishwasher. Working inside the house, in a cupboard and using a standard drill, hammer and chisel – it took me almost an hour to knock a 40mm hole through the inner leaf of an extremely hard brick wall. Two days later, armed with my new drill, the outer leaf had a 40mm hole in it in about 8 minutes. It would have been quicker but I had to revert to hammer and chisel mode to retrieve a chisel bit that was embedded in the wall.


Gordon

 

[Deluks]

On the same note as post removal, I'm embarking on a similar job next week, they are concrete posts as described, only about 2 ft exposed, and are decayed at the base, exposing the metal re-bar.
Got my SDS at the ready (bought the display model in homebase for a tenner!! ) The only problem is that I have to put new posts in these same holes, as I'm replacing a knackered section of fencing. Will I have real trouble oiking them out of the ground?

 

[Thermo]

depends how deep and how much concrete was used. you may need more than an sds drill to get them out. Once youve got them out you will end up with a very large hole to fill with concrete for the post. Ideally you want a deep hole thats not much bigger than the posts so you can wedge it with hardcore and then pack in the concrete. It should be able to stand up on its own once wedged in before the concrete is put in. I always try to miss the existing posts. Taking the existing bases out is pretty pointless, when they can be cut off just below ground level