I don't think we're far away from agreeing.I think, again, WWT, you're not entirely accurate. As I recall (from research, not being there.) the British set limitation on Jewish immigrants by only allowing in immigrants with £1,000 (I think £1,000 then was somewhere near £50,000 now).This was later lowered to £500,or it may have been t'other way round.
However once the Arabs objected, an annual limit was applied, except that the British allowed something called "The Jewish Agency" to issue immigration visas and that organisation totally disregarded the annual limit.
Land was bought by the Jews under the auspices of "The Jewish Land Fund" or something like that.
However, there was still far more illegal immigration going on.
But even then, at partition, there were 30% Jews who owned only 3% of land.
Under the partition, they were awarded 55% of the Palestinian land.
So going back to the original comment by Vinty, and as you've said the two are not comparable, the indigenous people were not overwhelmed by immigrants. It was the partition that created tension and conflict.
As I said, you interpret overwhelmed to imply numerically overwhelmed, whereas it could just as well mean overwhelmed as in defeated. Actually the Arabs were never agreed to partition, and so when the British left, war broke out, and the Jews overwhelmed the Arabs. Part of that was the massacre of some Arab villages by Jewish terrorists, and the subsequent deliberate spreading of the news, and rumours, by the Jews, to encourage a mass exodus of unarmed Arab civilians. Hence many Arabs simply fled in fear.
As to Jewish immigration, this link kind of confirms what I can recall from a couple of history books I read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#Second_Aliyah_.281904.E2.80.931914.29
Pre 1930 Britain was favourable to Jewish immigration, whereas in later years they tried harder to restrict it. Early on the Jews bought land legally - although it is questionable whether buying land in a country that is occupied is legal - and established Jewish towns and villages. The figure you gave of about 30% Jews at partition is about right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine
When discussing Israel I think we always have to remember that there are two peoples who suffered catastrophes, and Israel will never go away, so a pragamatic approach is needed. In my view anyway. Sadly I feel that the US does not help matters. And nor do the Arab states.
And sadly as the decades have passed, so Gaza has turned into a festering sewer with a huge young militant population who hate Jews, not entirely unsurprising really.
You're certainly accurate in saying the Israelis overwhelmed the united Arab armies ranged against them. Quite a feat for such a young nation in the making.
I agree that they also went on to commit "war crimes".
However Vinty's original contention was: "It happened in Palestine, millions of European migrants overwhelmed the indigenous people and the result has been anarchy." Which I disagreed with. It wasn't the immigration that overwhelmed the indigenous population but military superiority.
So the only point that I would still take issue with is your suggestion that the British allowed mass immigration or were favourable towards it. From your link referring to Aliyah:Quite clearly, the British did not simply allow unrestricted immigration neither were they favourable to immigration.. Perhaps things haven't changed too much and their efforts were poorly instigated.
No, I'm saying Israelis are better builders and engineers than Arabs.. You seem to be reading stuff that just isn't there
Or maybe you and a few others wish to make statements about various ethnic groups such as Arabs that are based on superfical observations and prejuduce and when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
No, I'm saying Israelis are better builders and engineers than Arabs.. You seem to be reading stuff that just isn't there
Or maybe you and a few others wish to make statements about various ethnic groups such as Arabs that are based on superfical observations and prejuduce and when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
Sounds like he works for the government, HMRC is my guess.
when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
Sounds like he works for the government, HMRC is my guess.
John D or Mr Fire&Ice?
I understand just fine thanks but I understand Arabs better, I have lived among them for many years...No, I'm saying Israelis are better builders and engineers than Arabs.. You seem to be reading stuff that just isn't there
Or maybe you and a few others wish to make statements about various ethnic groups such as Arabs that are based on superfical observations and prejuduce and when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
Your message was quite clear.
As I said, your posts are rather superficial, lacking any understanding of history and politics. Engineering flourishes in free economies, and tends not to flourish in corrupt dictatorships established and/or supported by the West to preserve an oil supply. Israel demonstrates that free enterprise allows people to flourish, at least in terms of establishing companies, engineering, universities etc. America has some appalling poverty and yet the system of low taxes and regulation creates a strong economy, and benefits many if not most.
What would a refrigeration and air conditioning engineer be doing working for HMRC?when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
Sounds like he works for the government, HMRC is my guess.
John D or Mr Fire&Ice?
Fire and Ice of course.
Wrong way round,when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
Sounds like he works for the government, HMRC is my guess.
John D or Mr Fire&Ice?
Fire and Ice of course.
Wrong way round,when others exercise their right to comment, interjecting facts and pointing out errors, you regard that as bullying and aggression.
JohnD said "Fire and Ice eats babies, and gasses badgers".
Sounds like he works for the government, HMRC is my guess.
John D or Mr Fire&Ice?
Fire and Ice of course.
You're slipping tonight wwt...
