Final Message
- Thread starter JBR
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Are there any black boilers?
Lots are blue now.....
We do not have free speech in this country. It is a criminal offence to incite hatred. Are you against those laws? Do you think a forum should be used to foment dislike if not hatred of one or more groups, often based on false information?
In any case, there are two sides to free speech. There are a few here who have an extreme agenda to push, and if someone points out the falsehoods in their statements, such as false interpretation of statistics, they are derided, abused and accused of suppressing free speech. Or in other words, they are bullied. It seems that free speech for a few means posting extreme political statements free of criticism.
And since Cecil Rhodes was mentioned, I think the statue should stay. You can't whitewash history. Liverpool was in part built on the slave trade. Do we pull down the older houses? In any case, people are not stupid. We know when we see a statue that the person might not have been a saint, might have had drink issues, might have had a mistress, might have been an imperialist and caused many deaths etc.
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WWT,
Some on here may think you have an agenda to push, like left wing apologists, and branding as many as you can as racist bigots at any given opportunity?
For example, let's say someone has a bleat and moan about the recent issues in Cologne, or are worried about the influx of refugees / immigrants diluting their culture, or putting additional strain on an already overloaded infrastructure. You will find any excuse to brand them racist, or having a dig at Muslims.
Thoughts?
Some on here may think you have an agenda to push, like left wing apologists, and branding as many as you can as racist bigots at any given opportunity?
For example, let's say someone has a bleat and moan about the recent issues in Cologne, or are worried about the influx of refugees / immigrants diluting their culture, or putting additional strain on an already overloaded infrastructure. You will find any excuse to brand them racist, or having a dig at Muslims.
Thoughts?
Fender,
Some on here may think you have an agenda to push, like racist bigot, and branding as many as you can as left wing apologists at any given opportunity?
For example, let's say someone writes literally thousands of posts criticising foreigners, immigrants, Arabs and Muslims, calls them rag-heads or towel-heads, or implies that every one of them is a murderer, or has a damaging effect on culture, or claims they put additional strain on the infrastructure and don't do lots of jobs, for example in the NHS and agriculture, that porky welfare-grabbing locals can't be bothered with. You won't accept that they may be racist, or anti-Muslim.
Thoughts?
Some on here may think you have an agenda to push, like racist bigot, and branding as many as you can as left wing apologists at any given opportunity?
For example, let's say someone writes literally thousands of posts criticising foreigners, immigrants, Arabs and Muslims, calls them rag-heads or towel-heads, or implies that every one of them is a murderer, or has a damaging effect on culture, or claims they put additional strain on the infrastructure and don't do lots of jobs, for example in the NHS and agriculture, that porky welfare-grabbing locals can't be bothered with. You won't accept that they may be racist, or anti-Muslim.
Thoughts?
JD,
You can never tar all with the same brush, as we all know it's not the case.
What I find on here sometimes though, is that any criticism of refugees / immigrants / Muslims and some will brand you racist.
We don't know each other and have to rely on the typed word, often with a briefly written post.
I'm not racist, and I'm not convinced many of the other previous posters were either.
With ref to your post though, are you really telling me that the recent mass immigration will not strain resources?
Also, why is it a problem to not wish your culture to be diluted?
Serious question.
If millions of Europeans turned up in Islamic countries to the point where Islam was being pushed to one side and becoming a minority / diluting their culture, do you think they'd be happy about it?
Kind of works both ways..
You can never tar all with the same brush, as we all know it's not the case.
What I find on here sometimes though, is that any criticism of refugees / immigrants / Muslims and some will brand you racist.
We don't know each other and have to rely on the typed word, often with a briefly written post.
I'm not racist, and I'm not convinced many of the other previous posters were either.
With ref to your post though, are you really telling me that the recent mass immigration will not strain resources?
Also, why is it a problem to not wish your culture to be diluted?
Serious question.
If millions of Europeans turned up in Islamic countries to the point where Islam was being pushed to one side and becoming a minority / diluting their culture, do you think they'd be happy about it?
Kind of works both ways..
WWT, I suppose you have a point in a way, about not erasing history.
You could say that William Wilberforce has a far greater legacy, but does he?
Rhodes did attend Oxford (Oriel College) but he was hardly an outstanding scholar.
I personally think that Rhodes legacy should be reduced and the removal of his statue would be a minor addition to the reduction of his legacy.
Does Oxford really want to be associated with him?
Jimmy Savile's MBE would have been rescinded if a process had existed, as would his other honours.
BTW, when Rhodes statue was first mentioned, I thought we were talking about the statue in Cape Town. I wasn't aware of the RMF movement in Oxford.
You could say that William Wilberforce has a far greater legacy, but does he?
Rhodes did attend Oxford (Oriel College) but he was hardly an outstanding scholar.
I personally think that Rhodes legacy should be reduced and the removal of his statue would be a minor addition to the reduction of his legacy.
Does Oxford really want to be associated with him?
Jimmy Savile's MBE would have been rescinded if a process had existed, as would his other honours.
BTW, when Rhodes statue was first mentioned, I thought we were talking about the statue in Cape Town. I wasn't aware of the RMF movement in Oxford.
No, I am not left wing, God forbid, and I am quite happy to say that immigration is far too high, and that many are unskilled and uneducated, which is not good. The problem is when a small group push an extreme agenda, trying to imply that all or most immigrants are terrorists, or criminals, or rapists, using terms such as rapeugees, which is a fact not a fabrication.
In any case I think you have double standards. If you think people should be free to make derogatory generalisations aboit immigrants and Muslims, why should people not be free to make negative remarks about these posters? Ah yes, demonising Muslims and immigrants is fine, but when the posters get criticised, they bleat like little girlies.
Incidentally, why all the hysteria about Muslim immigrants. The majority are East Europeans. Many have far right politics, many are aggressive and rude. Many years ago I rented a room in a house, and had to move because Poles were making noise all night. A friend had to lock himself in his flat after complaining about some Poles making noise late at night. They tried to beat him up. I worked in a company with two East European women. They were very rude and aggressive. One would sing out loud and annoy most people. I was verbally abused by them. Horrible people. Have I posted God knows how many anti East European posts here? I don't judge a group by the worst examples.
I can understand why Africans might want to remove his statue. I cannot argue with that.
Savile was a wrong un even in his time. But Rhodes was acting according to the norms of his time. And he probably did much good. So he was no Hitler, or Savile. And having his statue at Oxford allows the college to mention what he did, put it in context, and teach people that some wrongs were done in days gone by. It is almost as if by removing Rhodes' statue we are trying to erase our wrongs, to pretend that the past was as we are now, and it wasn't.
Perhaps we ought to restrict ourselves to a discussion about refugees/immigrants/Muslims rather than criticising them.
Just suppose France was doing dental work for free, or vastly reduced prices, would you take advantage of that? How many do a booze cruise to stock up on booze and fags? How many do not buy duty-free? You can't blame individuals for exploiting the lower cost options in life. It's called sensible purchasing, surely.
If you disagree with the results, complain about the system, not those taking advantage of the opportunities.
A debatable point, but only if/when it's debated without recourse to abuse and twisted statistics or youtube videos.
I don't see that as a problem. But the end result does not justify the means.
I personally accept that the world turns and nowt we do will stop it. Sometimes the new is better than the old.
Islam is different. It's not just a religion to be practised on a Sunday. It pervades all parts of society.
I'm not suggesting it should, or that any other religion ought to. In fact I'm agnostic.
I do think immigrants are straining our resources especially housing. But as I said, most are not Muslims. So why the obsession with Muslims?
You know exactly what I mean by both - I'm wasting my time with you no longer.
But you've made it quite obvious you have a serious dislike for Poles / Eastern Europeans.
Pot / kettle
Where did I blame Muslims?
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