Final Message

[Fire and Ice]

But the nice parts of the UAE of which Dubai and Abu Dhabi are but two Emirates weren't built by Arabs.
..

...and who do you think built Tel Aviv, Sherlock?

Obviously the US funded Israel but much of the work was done by Jews.. Would you mind please adjusting your aggressive tone. It's not helpful.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

...and who do you think built Tel Aviv, Sherlock?


Ask him one on woodland creatures Dr watson.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

But the nice parts of the UAE of which Dubai and Abu Dhabi are but two Emirates weren't built by Arabs.
..

...and who do you think built Tel Aviv, Sherlock?

Obviously the US funded Israel but much of the work was done by Jews.. Would you mind please adjusting your aggressive tone. It's not helpful.

He'll call you boyo next

 

[Fire and Ice]

Ask him one on woodland creatures Dr watson.

Deciduous or Coniferous woodland?

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I think, again, WWT, you're not entirely accurate. As I recall (from research, not being there. ) the British set limitation on Jewish immigrants by only allowing in immigrants with £1,000 (I think £1,000 then was somewhere near £50,000 now).This was later lowered to £500,or it may have been t'other way round.
However once the Arabs objected, an annual limit was applied, except that the British allowed something called "The Jewish Agency" to issue immigration visas and that organisation totally disregarded the annual limit.
Land was bought by the Jews under the auspices of "The Jewish Land Fund" or something like that.

However, there was still far more illegal immigration going on.
But even then, at partition, there were 30% Jews who owned only 3% of land.
Under the partition, they were awarded 55% of the Palestinian land.

So going back to the original comment by Vinty, and as you've said the two are not comparable, the indigenous people were not overwhelmed by immigrants. It was the partition that created tension and conflict.

As I said, you interpret overwhelmed to imply numerically overwhelmed, whereas it could just as well mean overwhelmed as in defeated. Actually the Arabs were never agreed to partition, and so when the British left, war broke out, and the Jews overwhelmed the Arabs. Part of that was the massacre of some Arab villages by Jewish terrorists, and the subsequent deliberate spreading of the news, and rumours, by the Jews, to encourage a mass exodus of unarmed Arab civilians. Hence many Arabs simply fled in fear.

As to Jewish immigration, this link kind of confirms what I can recall from a couple of history books I read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#Second_Aliyah_.281904.E2.80.931914.29

Pre 1930 Britain was favourable to Jewish immigration, whereas in later years they tried harder to restrict it. Early on the Jews bought land legally - although it is questionable whether buying land in a country that is occupied is legal - and established Jewish towns and villages. The figure you gave of about 30% Jews at partition is about right:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine

When discussing Israel I think we always have to remember that there are two peoples who suffered catastrophes, and Israel will never go away, so a pragamatic approach is needed. In my view anyway. Sadly I feel that the US does not help matters. And nor do the Arab states.

And sadly as the decades have passed, so Gaza has turned into a festering sewer with a huge young militant population who hate Jews, not entirely unsurprising really.

 

[noseall]

But the nice parts of the UAE of which Dubai and Abu Dhabi are but two Emirates weren't built by Arabs.
..

...and who do you think built Tel Aviv, Sherlock?

Obviously the US funded Israel but much of the work was done by Jews.. .

I think you'll find West Germany helped build the state of Isreal.

After the agreement was signed, West Germany became one of Israel’s foremost importers. Twenty-five percent of Israel’s shipbuilding came from West Germany, nine percent of the electrical industry, eleven percent of the iron and steel and thirteen percent of machinery.[50] Shipments under the agreement made up twelve percent of all annual Israel imports.[51] They helped fuel Israel’s economy and stimulate future production. In the north, Israel’s ironworks were built entirely from German shipments. About 2000 individual enterprises, both large and small, received machinery and other equipment.[52] According to Nicholas Balabkins, author of West Germany Reparations to Israel, the most important influence of the agreement was towards Israel’s field of telecommunication. Balabkins argued that, “although ships, electricity generating and transmitting equipment, and railroads considerably improved the operating capacity of the sectors of Israel’s material infrastructure, the most remarkable qualitative improvement was in the field of telecommunication.”[53] Without the Shilumim agreement, the equipment for the telecommunication could never have been financed.

 

[noseall]

......Boyo.

 

[Fire and Ice]

The funding or supply of equipment is not being debated, in most cases, Jews built the state of Israel, Germans rebuilt Germany and French people rebuilt the damaged parts of France. In contrast Arabs pay others to build their cities or if they are poor Arabs, then the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

 

[Fire and Ice]

......Boyo.

Should that not be "Duck"?

 

[noseall]

The funding or supply of equipment is not being debated, in most cases, Jews built the state of Israel, Germans rebuilt Germany and French people rebuilt the damaged parts of France. In contrast Arabs pay others to build their cities or if they are poor Arabs, then the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

You seem to be contradicting yourself here somewhat.
Are you talking about building or funding? Can you clarify please?
Oh, and the Jews aren't renowned for their passion for manual labour.

 

[jockscott]

In contrast Arabs pay others to build their cities or if they are poor Arabs, then the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

How true,,, I went to Cairo some years back. Apart from the touristy bits, the rest of it is a festering stinky hole. Honestly, you wouldn't believe it. (mind you 90+% of the wealth is owned by less than 5% of the population)

 

[Fire and Ice]

The funding or supply of equipment is not being debated, in most cases, Jews built the state of Israel, Germans rebuilt Germany and French people rebuilt the damaged parts of France. In contrast Arabs pay others to build their cities or if they are poor Arabs, then the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

You seem to be contradicting yourself here somewhat.
Are you talking about building or funding? Can you clarify please?
Oh, and the Jews aren't renowned for their passion for manual labour.

I have always said built... Not funded.
It seems that given how Israel has developed over a few short years compared to how most of the Arab world has developed over centuries, they have developed a tolerance for hard work

 

[Fire and Ice]

In contrast Arabs pay others to build their cities or if they are poor Arabs, then the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

How true,,, I went to Cairo some years back. Apart from the touristy bits, the rest of it is a festering stinky hole. Honestly, you wouldn't believe it. (mind you 90+% of the wealth is owned by less than 5% of the population)

It seems to be the aspiration of all Arabs to be businessmen rather than engineers or builders and as such they see manual labour or anyone technical as being beneath them.

If you look beyond the glitz of the UAE you will find some squalid dumps where locals live, the accommodation for the Indian labour force is even worse..

 

[noseall]

I'm still trying to find a difference between the two nations, in respect to your previous paragraphs and can find little.

Israel - founded on West German money and built using Palestinian labour. How does that differ from the Arab effort?

 

[noseall]

.........the quality and design of their constructions are poor and progress is slow

Have you seen photographs of Dubai and Abu Dhabi 50 years ago?

You are digging holes here at a rate never seen before. Congratulations Boyo. "Fire and Ice"? Should be "Pick 'n' Shovel"