Final Q's before i rip up my floor

[markyyyyyy]

Here are a couple of pics

General pic of stud wall in question

.... And a close up of the stud wall. The joist can be seen and also you can see a floorboard on the right that the stud wall is sat on. I removed a bit of board to see what was going on

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Oh bugger, does that mean my bath and sink have to come out?!

Not necessarily. If the floor isn't too bad in those areas it should be possible to cut out up to the nearest joist and leave sections of the old floor around both to carry them. Once you've installed the new floor (with the boards carried on the 4 x 2s) you'd have to build up the small sections of the original floor remaining using thin ply SLC, etc. If the floor is well out where they are, ot may mot be possible, or the end result may be a bit low. Always awkward to move baths and sinks because they so often have tiled splashbacks. WCs tend to be s bit easiet as they don't aleays have tiling

I wonder if i may be able to put a screw into the joist from the side that i am working from - angled through the side of the noggin into the joist?

Yes. That was what I was suggesting. You'll neef s couple of screws at each end

 

[markyyyyyy]

I'm going for the 'proper job'
Finding hard to get noggins in vertical due to cables etc in way. Does this look about right?,

Also how can I get a nail or screw from under the noggin into the floorboards? Doesn't seem enough room to work.

Cheers again much appreciated

 

[Deleted member 174758]

That's good. Stiffer if you can get it vertical rather than horizontal like that one. Pilot drill countersink and screw down from the top at an angle (i.e. skewed) rather than trying to screw from beneath. Far easier

 

[markyyyyyy]

That's good. Stiffer if you can get it vertical rather than horizontal like that one. Pilot drill countersink and screw down from the top at an angle (i.e. skewed) rather than trying to screw from beneath. Far easier

Update after today

It was a stressful day as you say! In the end i took the bath and sink out, and when putting it al back together the bath waste and tap was leaking so i thought sod it and ripped it all out as i need to level the floor in the bathroom so thought here is my opportunity.

I've bought 28m in total of 5x2 (to be on safe side)

My questions at present are:

1. One or two of the current joists are twisted/bowed (ie. not vertical if i put spirit on the side), do i just bolt to it as normal? Will the top edge of the new timber reflect the joist i am bolting to?
2. How do i leave the floor edge on the stud wall where i have put noggins? I won't have anywhere to screw in the new floor at the edge of the room?
3. The joist spacings are not your typical 300mm or 400mm, they're coming in at 380mm or so - will this be an issue when laying board down?
4. On the picture below, would you start on the right and work your way down to the left?

some reference pics below

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 174758]

1. One or two of the current joists are twisted/bowed (ie. not vertical if i put spirit on the side), do i just bolt to it as normal? Will the top edge of the new timber reflect the joist i am bolting to?

Normally you just face fix it and leave it at that, unless it is really bad. In that case it may be necessary to plane the top edge of the sistered board to get it right (flat, horizontal). It normally doesn't need to be perfect, but within 2 to 4mm is generally acceptable

2. How do i leave the floor edge on the stud wall where i have put noggins? I won't have anywhere to screw in the new floor at the edge of the room?

You should have put in the noggins at 300 to 400mm centres. If you add some form of packing atop these noggins (e.g. a offcuts of the removed flooring, thin plywood, etc., building the level to that of the top of the new sistering boards) then that will suffice to carry your new flooring

3. The joist spacings are not your typical 300mm or 400mm, they're coming in at 380mm or so - will this be an issue when laying board down?

Yes and no. In other words there are workarounds. Your t&g boards will work out at 2400mm long as a rule (ideal for new 400mm spaced joists). Additionslly, in a typical domestic environment your rooms normally won't be more than about 4.8 metres, so with a little bit of organizing you may well be able to the boards to join end to end over a 5 x 2. This gets a bit more awkward on your alternate rows (where instead of two full boards you get a half board, a fullboard, then a half board) so if you get a joint that misses it is often just a case of screwing a 2 x 1 batten (slate lath, etc) or the like onto the side of the joist for that board width (600 to 700mm long). The alternative might be to install a couple or three noggins between joists for that board. The key issue is that you must not have unsupported end joints

4. On the picture below, would you start on the right and work your way down to the left?

Quite possibly. A bit difficult to say without being there in person, but working towards a door is generally a good idea. You generally start with the tongue nearest to the wall (you saw this off on the first row to get a tighter fit). That allows you to get the glue into the groove of the installed board and fit the tongue of the next board into that. Starting from the left keeps that going for the end joints as well (if that makes sense)

 

[markyyyyyy]

Normally you just face fix it and leave it at that, unless it is really bad. In that case it may be necessary to plane the top edge of the sistered board to get it right (flat, horizontal). It normally doesn't need to be perfect, but within 2 to 4mm is generally acceptable


You should have put in the noggins at 300 to 400mm centres. If you add some form of packing atop these noggins (e.g. a offcuts of the removed flooring, thin plywood, etc., building the level to that of the top of the new sistering boards) then that will suffice to carry your new flooring


Yes and no. In other words there are workarounds. Your t&g boards will work out at 2400mm long as a rule (ideal for new 400mm spaced joists). Additionslly, in a typical domestic environment your rooms normally won't be more than about 4.8 metres, so with a little bit of organizing you may well be able to the boards to join end to end over a 5 x 2. This gets a bit more awkward on your alternate rows (where instead of two full boards you get a half board, a fullboard, then a half board) so if you get a joint that misses it is often just a case of screwing a 2 x 1 batten (slate lath, etc) or the like onto the side of the joist for that board width (600 to 700mm long). The alternative might be to install a couple or three noggins between joists for that board. The key issue is that you must not have unsupported end joints


Quite possibly. A bit difficult to say without being there in person, but working towards a door is generally a good idea. You generally start with the tongue nearest to the wall (you saw this off on the first row to get a tighter fit). That allows you to get the glue into the groove of the installed board and fit the tongue of the next board into that. Starting from the left keeps that going for the end joints as well (if that makes sense)

Brilliant, thanks very much for your help! You have helped me enormously. I'm having a day off tomorrow so i'll report back if i have any issues going foreward! Thank you

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It's easy enough to see if you have a problem which needs to be dealt with by planing - just lay a straight edge (4ft level, piece of ply with s fsctory edge etc) across several joists in a row and look. If you have a problem that needs sorting youll either see a big gap beneath the straight edge at one joist or the straight edge will be lifted clear by a high one. 2 to 3mm makes little discernable difference once thefloor is down. 10mm would.

Have a relaxing day off

 

[markyyyyyy]

Thanks - just another question popped into my head.

When sistering joists, I don't have to connect them to the wall atall? Do I literally just bolt to the existing joist and use the strength of the existing joist?

Also, when installing the chipboard starting at hallway, do I have to cut the thickness of the board so that when the flooring goes into the bedroom, the tongue and grooves are flush?

Or would you just take the landing, kitchen and bathroom separate, with small expansion gaps between, as this would make it a lot easier?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

When sistering joists, I don't have to connect them to the wall atall? Do I literally just bolt to the existing joist and use the strength of the existing joist?

No need to connect into the masonry walls. The existing joists carry the load

Also, when installing the chipboard starting at hallway, do I have to cut the thickness of the board so that when the flooring goes into the bedroom, the tongue and grooves are flush?

Maybe I'm not getting something here, but i thought you were bringing all the joists up to the same level. I can understand your issue of dealing with door openings, though, so if you wanted to butt two boards up to each other (with a 2mm gap) that could work, but you do need to ensure that tbe boards are adequately supported - so more noggins, i3m afraid. That gap will cause draughts, so you'll either need to get a bead of silicone in there (if needs be backed up by some of that closed cell polythene "rope" sold by decorator centres) or fit some sort of threshold strip over the gap.

Granted, were I doing it I'd try to cut round the wall openings and do the floor in a "oner" - but I do this job for a living and have various bits of nifty kit to help me achieve the desired result with less effort.

 

[markyyyyyy]

yes, sorry maybe i didn't explain myself. I do mean the doorway between the hallway and bedroom, as per above. I will obviously start with a full board in the corner of the bedroom, so if i were to try and butt up the joints on the chipboard i would have to cut the first board that i put down on the landing because the landing area up to door opening is approx 90cm wide whereas if it was 1.2m wide (2 board width) then it would butt up easy enough.

Cheers

 

[markyyyyyy]

Hi there, just an update, couple of pics and questions.

I've had another day of demolition, mainly in the bathroom and also taking out the floorboards in bathroom and landing.

I've attached some pictures below of the door casing edge where it goes from the landing into the bedroom - does it look as though i have cut the edges ok? The door casing was loose so i took it out and cut next to it. Also, how do i best trim down the width of the board that runs parallel to stud wall, to keep it tight to the wall?

Just thinking ahead to materials as i'm going to order the flooring early next week. What screw length do i need? Do i need specific screws or multipurpose?

Don't think i have any further questions as of now.

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Hiya. You missed the photis.

 

[markyyyyyy]

Hiya. You missed the photis.

Oh bugger

Here you go

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I'd put in a noggin across the opening beneath the threshold from joidt to joist. Thiat will stabilise the joists carry the wall (and later the door casing) as well as giving you somewhere to rest the joints between boards

Screws for the floorboard should be 4.5 x 50mm chipboard or flooring screws or similar.

If needs be use s hand saw to do.the last bit of trimming flush to.the wall face. Multitool can do a similar job