Fire Rated Spotlights Question (AGAIN)

[Dan1983]

Right i know this question has been raised over and over again but i just cant find the answer here or via the building regulations.

We have recently worked on a garage that has been split to form a utility room this has been split with a firewall.

The original door to the garage from the house remains but is now in the utility room, building control have said there is no need for a fire door as the garage is now enclosed via the new fire wall and the utility room doesn't need to comply to contained walls regs.

But on the other hand is still requesting fire rated spot lights in the utility room claiming that there is an inhabitable room above.

Now my understanding of this is that this is only a requirement if the room above is a separate dwelling e.g FLATS, in this instance it is only the living room above.

Now im not looking to be tight an penny pinch on cheap spot light but we had these in stock and seemed legitimate to use, building control has now caused a dispute between me and the customer who is now claiming incompetence to avoid payment.

Please can anyone clarify the regulations on spot lights or provide a link to some concrete information.

Other issues raised by building control involve horizontal wiring from socket to socket and the use of a heat shrunk through crimp joint.


Thank You.

 

[Chri5]

526.3 covers the acceptable use of crimps

Here's the diagram for permitted routes

The fire type fittings are only required when the floor above is occupied by another person, as in flats or maisonettes. Not sure if it's in the 17th.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Right i know this question has been raised over and over again but i just cant find the answer here or via the building regulations.

Have you actually looked at the Building Regulations, and the appropriate Approved Document B?

The original door to the garage from the house remains but is now in the utility room, building control have said there is no need for a fire door as the garage is now enclosed via the new fire wall and the utility room doesn't need to comply to contained walls regs.

But on the other hand is still requesting fire rated spot lights in the utility room claiming that there is an inhabitable room above.

He can't have it both ways - either the utility room is in the same fire compartment as the rest of the house or it is not.

Now my understanding of this is that this is only a requirement if the room above is a separate dwelling e.g FLATS, in this instance it is only the living room above.

Doesn't have to be a separate dwelling. Could be a house with more than 2 storeys. Could be a room over an integral garage.

Maybe others - I don't know.

Now im not looking to be tight an penny pinch on cheap spot light but we had these in stock and seemed legitimate to use, building control has now caused a dispute between me and the customer who is now claiming incompetence to avoid payment.

Please can anyone clarify the regulations on spot lights or provide a link to some concrete information.

At the end of the day you are always going to be on the back foot arguing the toss with Building Control, especially when you aren't absolutely clear on what's required.

Was this done via a Building Notice, or full plans submission?

When you factor in your time, and goodwill, it will probably be cheaper to do what they want. It's one thing to go toe-to-toe with a BCO when it's your own house, quite another when it's a customer's.

Other issues raised by building control involve horizontal wiring from socket to socket

Why? Was the chase too deep?

and the use of a heat shrunk through crimp joint.

What did they say about that?

You're clearly not a registered electrician - are you a qualified but unregistered one?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The fire type fittings are only required when the floor above is occupied by another person, as in flats or maisonettes.

Not necessarily, AIUI.

Not sure if it's in the 17th.

It won't be - it's a Building Regulation, not a Wiring one.

 

[Dan1983]

; Have you actually looked at the Building Regulations, and the appropriate Approved Document B?

Yes in great detail.

He can't have it both ways - either the utility room is in the same fire compartment as the rest of the house or it is not.

I question this at the time but wasn't given a reply

At the end of the day you are always going to be on the back foot arguing the toss with Building Control, especially when you aren't absolutely clear on what's required.

Was this done via a Building Notice, or full plans submission?

When you factor in your time, and goodwill, it will probably be cheaper to do what they want. It's one thing to go toe-to-toe with a BCO when it's your own house, quite another when it's a customer's.

I was sub-contracting to a building company so unsure of how they applied for planning as im a registered installer i self notify building control via the online system on completion.

My problem now is the customer is happy to use what the LA has said to avoid total payment i have requested a written copy of suspected deviations from the regulations in which i will reply.

Horizontal Cable

Why? Was the chase too deep?

No this was in a cavity wall travelling around 600mm in a direct horizontal line, which for many years ive know is acceptable


Heat Shrink Joint:

What did they say about that?

That it wasn't a permitted joint to be buried in a wall.

PLEASE NOTE the last 2 points i listed were just for reference to show the incompetence of the building inspector, im more than aware of the the location of these answers in BS7671

You're clearly not a registered electrician - are you a qualified but unregistered one?

Very quick to jump the gun there, well yes i am a fully qualified and time served electrician with 16th, 17th edition, 2391 and currently on block release doing my HNCD. Also i have been registered since April 2006.

I find it funny how you can come to that assumption from my question which in a fashion is little related to BS7671 but more the Fire Safety regulation.

Anyway i have manage to find a document i was looking for an will challenge the building inspector not just for the hell of it but to continue my company's good name.

 

[Chri5]

Sounds like you client is an 4rse.

Good luck with the ££ chase.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Very quick to jump the gun there, well yes i am a fully qualified and time served electrician with 16th, 17th edition, 2391 and currently on block release doing my HNCD. Also i have been registered since April 2006.

I find it funny how you can come to that assumption from my question which in a fashion is little related to BS7671 but more the Fire Safety regulation.

Sorry - it was because the BCO was looking at the electrical work in the first place - it's completely outside his remit if you're self certifying, so I could not begin to imagine he'd be doing that if you were self-certifying. They've not been paid to inspect the electrical work.

If you can show (and it looks like you can) that an unqualified council employee has falsely told your customer that your work is suspect, thereby causing you inconvenience and loss then go for their throats - compensation, complain to your councillor, the head of Building Control (I'm sure employees are not supposed to spend time when they should be working carrying out inspections they've not been paid to do), see if the local press have an anti-council attitude - create as big a s**t-storm as you can.