Fit 2 PV solar panels now, more later?

[meadowhog]

Does anyone know if its possible or worth fitting 2 PV panels with all the electrical installations now, for say a couple of grand (or more, I dont know), and qualify for the higher feed in Tarif. Then without uprating the invertor etc add more PV panels myself at a later date, ?

I guess the warranty maybe void and there maybe questions about insurance but it must be cheaper to extend later with cheaper more efficient panels. I cant afford 25K for a roof full, but over 25years its £100K profit!!!

 

[Chri5]

So over 25 years you intend to generate enough to make £100k + £25k for the system + £25k loss of interest.

That amounts to £150k diivide by 43p is about 350 000 kw

Lets guess at each panel being a 0.5 kw h peak with 2* hours per day x 365 days x 25 years or about 9125 kw

350 000 divided by 9125 means your need 38 panels- bloody big roof

* 2 hours should be about 3.5 hours, but over 25 years the PV fades so have factored in let output.

I haven't factored in cleaning, service, invertor replacement or PV panel fails.

 

[JohnW2]

I cant afford 25K for a roof full, but over 25years its £100K profit!!!

Even if that were true, for the first 10-15 years you would be worse off than if you hadn't done it. How old are you and how long do you expect to be living in your present house?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[pjcomp]

Does anyone know if its possible or worth fitting 2 PV panels with all the electrical installations now, for say a couple of grand (or more, I dont know), and qualify for the higher feed in Tarif. Then without uprating the invertor etc add more PV panels myself at a later date, ?

The fact you're asking the question means you haven't researched it very well. As things stand you can't have the FiT unless everything is fitted by an MCS-registered installer, your two PV panels won't generate enough to activate the size of inverter you'd want for later on, and your equipment all has to be declared to the energy supplier at installation, so they wouldn't pay you if you suddenly started claiming for more generation.

Unfortunately most of the solar pv advertising at the moment is stressing the financial returns, but the whole scheme was designed to kick start this area of the renewable energy industry and help it develop; this means the rules surrounding the FiT are designed to promote it as a means of generating electricity, not as a means of generating cash.

PJ

 

[meadowhog]

From the calculations on a comparison website, a £25K installation would take 7 years to pay for its self. But Im not looking to pay £25K

Ive got a bungalow with about 70m square of usable roof so yeh its pretty big and its dead south facing. Not sure the £25K interest has anything to do with it? And yes Panels lose about 1% efficiency per year.

The point is, Im looking for a small outlay now to get that index linked 43p and add more panels later. Im hoping someone could tell me if a current £25K quote for a full installation could be done for a lot less, with more efficient panels, if I bought and fitted them myself.

You do have a good point about servicing but cleaning on a bungalow is a sinch. Maybe theres someone with more realistic calculations I know some sales sites can be over encouraging.

P.S.We intend to never move-Lots of land in a location we love.

 

[Wontdothatagain]

if I bought and fitted them myself.

You would not be able to get the FIT if you fitted them yourself

 

[meadowhog]

Thanks PJ your right, thats why Im asking here. Its all new and some info is not thateasy to find.

 

[Chri5]

Not sure the £25K interest has anything to do with it? And yes Panels lose about 1% efficiency per year.

Your seem to be treating the potential fit of PV as an investment. In any investment the capital used has to been considered as money that may have beem earning.

So in the case where you are declaring a desire to make money you should consider the capital, and the lost potential growth of the capital.

So when it comes to a number crunch the base position that £25k would earn about £25k (in a modest investment over 25 years) should be factored in.

 

[bernardgreen]

So when it comes to a number crunch

If the power suppliers are pay you 43p for each Kwh you produce and and charging others only 13p for them then ask yourself where is the missing 30p coming from.

Most of it is coming out of the pocket, via taxes, of the people who buy electricity. Eventually either taxes go up to pay for all the 43p per Kwh electricity produced by PV or everyone who doesn't have PV will be paying 43p for electricity.

 

[pjcomp]

How many panels you could eventually get on your roof depends on its shape as much as its area (eg 70m x 1m, 35x2, etc), and any intrusions such as aerials, chimneys, skylights, etc - if you let me know the dimensions I can work out some better numbers for you. Assuming the roof is 14m x 5m, allowing for panel size and space round the edges, you're probably looking at around 28 panels, with around 7 KWP output, but that's only part of the story.

PJ

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And think how the economics would work if everybody had a PV installation, and everybody was selling "their" electricity for 43p and also having to pay to by everybody elses at 43p.

It's a bit like a pyramid scheme.

If small scale solar PV made sense there would be no need to bribe people into doing it. But it just doesn't - nothing can be done about the fact that we are about 54° north of the equator and have a predominantly wet and cloudy climate.

Nothing can be done about the fact that the average power of sunshine landing on a south facing roof is about 110W/m², nor that on average it is only sunny for about ⅓ of daylight hours.

And remember those are averages over the entire year - between November and February the average solar intensity is about 30W/m², so even with the best high performance PV panels your 70m² roof is going to produce, on average, 400-500W at the time of year when it's coldest and darkest, 200W - 300W for cheapie panels

There's no point to it from an energy production POV because unless you want to have nothing more than a couple of light bulbs and a kettle which takes hours to boil on a winter's day, and SFA for 16 hours a day, you're still going to want to have electricity made in power stations.

And there's no point to it from a financial POV, unless you're happy for your electricity to cost 3-4x what it does today.

The difference between the 13p you pay your supplier and the 43p he pays you comes out of the pockets of people who are poorer than you or who don't happen to have a south facing roof, or indeed any roof at all (e.g. city dwellers). If you think that taking money from people like that in order to fund something which makes no financial sense, has virtually no practical value, and gives them absolutely nothing in return makes you a good person you should think again.

 

[meadowhog]

OK, so to sum up, I'm poor, and I have no intension of spending 25K on solar panels and theres no way round getting that price down and I'm a bad person.

Thanks PJ, I have 2 usable roofs 10x4.5 and 6x4.5 and 3 average size skylights but it looks like a no go at the moment. I'll wait until were all paying 43p to those dispicable people who can afford them now.

 

[JohnW2]

I have 2 usable roofs 10x4.5 and 6x4.5 and 3 average size skylights but it looks like a no go at the moment.

There's another factor which people don't seem to consider. If one does have lots of south-facing roof, and covers it with solar panels, what effect is that going to have on the 'ease of selling' (and maybe even sale price) when one eventually wants to sell the property. OK, so a buyer could rip them off, but it's 'aesthetic first impressions' that often are the main determinant of a decision to buy!

... but I suppose one may get lucky and find a buy who finds the panels to be aesthetically pleasing

Kind Regards, John

 

[meadowhog]

Apparantley they increase the value of your home which should be factored in. In a perfect world you could get back most of the outlay. In my case, you wouldnt actually see most of the panels as they would be on the side of the house up against a boundary.

 

[JohnW2]

Apparantley they increase the value of your home which should be factored in. In a perfect world you could get back most of the outlay.

That view doesn't come from the purveyors of such systems, does it?

I can obviously understand that some people would probably regard it as a 'plus' which justified paying a bit more for the house, but I would not like to guess what proportion that would be - and I still think that there are plenty of others whose 'aesthetic first impression' might put them off, maybe if at a subconscious level!

I still cannot but suspect that if one has a few thousand pounds that one wants to invest for a 25-year return, even in these difficult economic times, there are probably far simpler/better ways of doing it! It's also probably worth adding that many people who go down the pv route might well be able to achieve the same savings (aka 'return') over 25 years, without being out-of-pocket for the first few years, by applying themselves to their electricity consumption (insulation, usage habits etc.).

Kind Regards, John.